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View Poll Results: Grade "Born to Run"
"I'll be back." (Excellent) 85 77.27%
"Come with me if you want to live." (Above Average) 19 17.27%
"Thank you for explaining." (Average) 6 5.45%
"If we stay the course we are dead. We are all dead!" (Below Average) 0 0%
"You are TERMINATED." (Poor) 0 0%
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 12 2009, 07:41 PM   #271
Magic_Al
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

The funny thing about using branch theory instead of predestination is Skynet's and John Connor's original decisions to send fighters back to 1984 are exposed as irrelevant to their own survival. Their past as they know it is unchangeable because the time machine sends people to alternate universes. The proof is the passage of time between the Terminator going through and Reese going through. It was at least seconds, probably minutes and maybe hours, based on the amount of knowledge and preparation Kyle reveals (learning nothing dead will go, volunteering for the mission and realizing it's "a chance to meet the legend", and being told the time machine would be blown up after he went though). How did that transpire if an unchallenged Terminator destroyed their past? If you don't use the Star Trek Guardian of Forever conceit, the only explanation is that their past as they know it did not change. When Kyle goes through, he creates a new universe branching from the past of his old universe. One could question why the Terminator is even present in the past Kyle goes to, since it didn't exist in Kyle's past except for his knowledge that one had gone through the time machine ahead of him -- unless, it's a repeating cycle and there was a previous Terminator and a previous Kyle.

In the end, a particular Kyle from a particular future irrevocably becomes John's father in the universe where it happens. The Kyle that teenage John meets in T:SCC is from John's own universe and will never be his father. It's not necessary to send that Kyle back in time, no more than Senator John Connor in the peaceful future needs to do anything to assure his own birth.
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Old April 12 2009, 08:32 PM   #272
LutherSloan
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

firehawk12 wrote: View Post
Pancake mix?
I thought it was going to be trousers?
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Old April 12 2009, 10:20 PM   #273
Ryan8bit
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Magic_Al wrote: View Post
The funny thing about using branch theory instead of predestination is Skynet's and John Connor's original decisions to send fighters back to 1984 are exposed as irrelevant to their own survival.
Actually, when you think about it, no method of time travel for Terminator really makes sense. T1 on its own could be accepted as a last ditch effort; a plan that had little chance of success. Maybe Skynet didn't know how things really would work out. Everything from T2 onward becomes redundant and nonsensical when it comes to time travel, no matter which explanation is used. SCC is the worst offender for this, probably because of the sheer quantity of time traveling and little thought put into it.
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Old April 12 2009, 10:48 PM   #274
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Magic_Al wrote: View Post
The funny thing about using branch theory instead of predestination is Skynet's and John Connor's original decisions to send fighters back to 1984 are exposed as irrelevant to their own survival. Their past as they know it is unchangeable because the time machine sends people to alternate universes. The proof is the passage of time between the Terminator going through and Reese going through. It was at least seconds, probably minutes and maybe hours, based on the amount of knowledge and preparation Kyle reveals (learning nothing dead will go, volunteering for the mission and realizing it's "a chance to meet the legend", and being told the time machine would be blown up after he went though). How did that transpire if an unchallenged Terminator destroyed their past?
Not necessarily.

Once you get into Quantum Mechanics things go way differently than intuition tells you so. Most importantly; multiple possibilities can exist at the same time, until a certain probability gets satisfied (most often when an observer looks at things) and the whole thing collapses just into one option.

Let's repeat Shrodingers cat as a simple explanation:

We get a cat. We put him in a box. We put a radioactive rock in with the cat and close the box. Now, the radioactive collapse of the rock is a probability function. How much radioactivity the cat absorbs is thus a function of that function. And whether not the cat is dead, in turn is a function of that function.

In short; the chance that the cat is alive or dead, is dependent on one function of chance that contains this all.

We wait; time passes. And somewhere along the way, the chance the cat is alive is about equal to the cat being dead. At this point, according to quantum mechanics, the cat is indeed BOTH alive, AND dead at the same time. Both possibilities exist simultaneously in a state of flux. It isn't until someone opens the box that the probability function collapses and either one or the other becomes a reality.

If you would apply this to multiple realities/timelines, if both options have a high enough possibility of occurring, both would would exist in their own timeline. However, if the possibility of one option is too low, it would not become its own timeline, it would simply disappear. (Of course, wait long enough, and the chance the cat's still alive would become so low the probability function would collapse on its own without anyone having to look at it.)

Time travel scenario would essentially be the same:

1. Terminator goes back in time. There is nobody there to stop him, he kills Sarah Connor, Skynet wins.

2. However, this has a certain possiblity of occurring; and the future timeline where John Connor defeats Skynet and sends Kyle Reese after the Terminator also has a possibility of occurring, and thus both options exist simultaneously at the same time.

3. Giving John Connor enough time to send Kyle Reese through the time machine. Which has its own probability of occurring, and so the options, "Terminator alone kills Sarah" and "Kyle Reese goes back as well" exist for a while at the same time, until something makes the function collapse; resulting either in two time lines, one for either option; or one of the options has too low a probability of occurring, and simply entirely disappears.
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Old April 12 2009, 10:55 PM   #275
Wouter2
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

highlander wrote: View Post
I loved it. I want more. Cancellation is not an option. Fingers and toes crossed.
Seconded. Excellent season finale. More, please.

And if the worst happens, at least let them finish it in a direct-to-DVD feature or in a novel (written by, say, Toni Graphia).
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Old April 12 2009, 11:25 PM   #276
Wouter2
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
I suppose you're right. I would think that for a franchise like Terminator though, that they'd at least give them a ballpark idea.

What Ross Bond says is never of consequence. The show's fate was probably already decided a while back, just unofficially.
But not while Friedman wrote the finale then (not that long ago), or he presumably wouldn't have left the major cliffhanger.

Then again, even if FOX did decide unofficially, WB could still opt to go to another network, so we may not know for a while yet as WB looks at options.

Now that it seems likely Dollhouse will be cancelled, TSCC's chances may have gone up slightly, on the assumption FOX would want to keep an SF show in the air.
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Old April 13 2009, 03:08 AM   #277
Snaploud
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Wouter2 wrote: View Post
Now that it seems likely Dollhouse will be cancelled, TSCC's chances may have gone up slightly, on the assumption FOX would want to keep an SF show in the air.
...unless it's an indication that FOX has lost faith in Friday sci-fi and plans to use the Terminator/Dollhouse slot for something else...
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Old April 13 2009, 03:10 AM   #278
nx1701g
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Snaploud wrote: View Post
Wouter2 wrote: View Post
Now that it seems likely Dollhouse will be cancelled, TSCC's chances may have gone up slightly, on the assumption FOX would want to keep an SF show in the air.
...unless it's an indication that FOX has lost faith in Friday sci-fi and plans to use the Terminator/Dollhouse slot for something else...
Well we'll find out its fate on Friday May 18th when Fox announces their schedule...

... three days before Salvation premieres.
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Old April 13 2009, 03:33 AM   #279
Tim
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

nx1701g wrote: View Post
Snaploud wrote: View Post
Wouter2 wrote: View Post
Now that it seems likely Dollhouse will be cancelled, TSCC's chances may have gone up slightly, on the assumption FOX would want to keep an SF show in the air.
...unless it's an indication that FOX has lost faith in Friday sci-fi and plans to use the Terminator/Dollhouse slot for something else...
Well we'll find out its fate on Friday May 18th when Fox announces their schedule...

... three days before Salvation premieres.
And I doubt WB would want the pall of the series cancellation cast over the premiere of the new movie.

Honestly, I think that if WB offered the show at even more of a fire sale price (possible now with several supporting cast members gone), that optimistically Fox might opt for a 9- or 13-episode order. Failing that, WB could shop it to a cable network; cable does seem the final refuge of sci-fi shows these days.

nx, would you mind posting here the addresses for the offices at Fox and WB that we should deluge with letters?
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Old April 13 2009, 03:44 AM   #280
nx1701g
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Tim M wrote: View Post
And I doubt WB would want the pall of the series cancellation cast over the premiere of the new movie.

Honestly, I think that if WB offered the show at even more of a fire sale price (possible now with several supporting cast members gone), that optimistically Fox might opt for a 9- or 13-episode order. Failing that, WB could shop it to a cable network; cable does seem the final refuge of sci-fi shows these days.
I'm afraid that they really can't do that. WB already sells TSCC to Fox at bare bottom prices and has significant advertising dollars invested in the show. Plus, several major backers have begun pulling out of TSCC I'm sorry to say.

nx, would you mind posting here the addresses for the offices at Fox and WB that we should deluge with letters?
I am afraid - board rules - that I cannot post them in the thread. I will PM them to anyone who wants them.
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Old April 13 2009, 05:22 AM   #281
Tim
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

nx1701g wrote: View Post
Tim M wrote: View Post
And I doubt WB would want the pall of the series cancellation cast over the premiere of the new movie.

Honestly, I think that if WB offered the show at even more of a fire sale price (possible now with several supporting cast members gone), that optimistically Fox might opt for a 9- or 13-episode order. Failing that, WB could shop it to a cable network; cable does seem the final refuge of sci-fi shows these days.
I'm afraid that they really can't do that. WB already sells TSCC to Fox at bare bottom prices and has significant advertising dollars invested in the show. Plus, several major backers have begun pulling out of TSCC I'm sorry to say.
Though with a smaller payroll for the show due to fewer supporting actors, the loss that WB is taking would be smaller, so it might be possible to push the price a bit lower. As for corporate backers, which one(s) was/were lost? Dodge? If so, that could be more a function of Chrysler being out of money.

nx, would you mind posting here the addresses for the offices at Fox and WB that we should deluge with letters?
I am afraid - board rules - that I cannot post them in the thread. I will PM them to anyone who wants them.
I was never aware of such a board rule. Guess I missed the memo. Please PM me the info if you can.
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Old April 13 2009, 07:33 AM   #282
LutherSloan
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

I'm pretty sure that Dodge pulling out of TSCC mostly has to do with their dire financial state.
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Old April 13 2009, 07:35 AM   #283
nx1701g
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

LutherSloan wrote: View Post
I'm pretty sure that Dodge pulling out of TSCC mostly has to do with their dire financial state.
No, they jumped ship for Salvation.
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Old April 13 2009, 11:12 AM   #284
Admiral_Young
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Awesome episode...one of the best cliffhangers I've seen in a while. What I'm confused about is did they jump into an altered future timeline, so altered because of something that John Henry did when he jumped before them? With Derek not recognizing him I thought this might be so...John's look when he sees his dad for the first time and then Cameron/human was awesome! I really hope we get a third season but I won't be expecting it.
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Old April 13 2009, 12:25 PM   #285
MNM
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

nx1701g wrote: View Post
LutherSloan wrote: View Post
I'm pretty sure that Dodge pulling out of TSCC mostly has to do with their dire financial state.
No, they jumped ship for Salvation.
Which could still be linked to their financial state, as they may think that investing a similar amount of money into T4 as they do/did in TSCC would lead to a higher return and therefore a better choice.
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