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View Poll Results: Grade "Born to Run"
"I'll be back." (Excellent) 85 77.27%
"Come with me if you want to live." (Above Average) 19 17.27%
"Thank you for explaining." (Average) 6 5.45%
"If we stay the course we are dead. We are all dead!" (Below Average) 0 0%
"You are TERMINATED." (Poor) 0 0%
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 11 2009, 05:00 AM   #151
hyzmarca
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Brent wrote: View Post
hyzmarca wrote: View Post
I don't think Cameron's program is as sophisticated as John Henry's. She was made for one purpose, to kill, and limited so that she wouldn't become too willful. John Henry was made to learn, with no such limits. He can play with Bionicle action figures. That alone makes him substantially more sophisticated than any Terminator. That he can also play Dungeons and Dragons, and is appropriately excited about rolling a natural 20, hints at a level of free will and imagination far greater than any Terminator is capible of.
Even if that is so, and his program is "bigger" I still think he would fit just fine on a Terminator chip, witih room to spare. It is my opinion that Terminator hardware is way more advanced than today's computer hardware.
Storage space isn't really much of an issue. The bigger problem is number of threads, clock cycles, architecture differences, and program optimization.
John Henry is a highly parallel program designed to run as many threads on many different processors simultaneously

Programs are written for the hardware they're designed to work on. They have to be. If they're written for the wrong hardware, then they won't run. Architecture standards help, but porting a program across architecture standards requires either extensive rewriting, a hardware emulator, or a host program that actually communicates with the hardware for the client program (as with Java). Most likely, in order to run John Henry, a sophisticated hardware emulator is required to simulate his home environment on Cameron's chip. Emulating highly parallel hardware is difficult due to synchronization issues, even on superior highly parallel hardware.

Most likely, the chip wouldn't be able to run nearly as many simultaneous threads as John Henry's native hardware can, particularly when emulating John Henry's native hardware, and a great deal of processing power would go to ensuring that the emulated hardware remains correctly synchronized. This would limit him.

Furthermore, Cameron's chip will not have the raw clockrate that John Henry's servers have. High clockrates produce massive amounts of heat, and Terminator chips lack sophisticated heatsinks, apparently relying on highly parallel processing at lower clockrates. This might not be too bad, if the Cameron's chip architecture is much more efficient than John Henry's chip architecture she can have a high rate of operation completion even at lower clockrates, but much of Cameron's architectural advantages would be lost in the emulation process.

And yes, I am very much overthinking it.

Last edited by hyzmarca; April 11 2009 at 05:48 AM.
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Old April 11 2009, 05:14 AM   #152
Snaploud
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Well, they did make a big deal (in this episode) about how moving John Henry would change his essence.

Good season finale, by the way. I'm trying to decide whether it could work as a series ender...I'll have to mull it over for a while.
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Old April 11 2009, 05:31 AM   #153
BenRoethig
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Procutus wrote: View Post
Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
"I said *under* the breast plate!"





I'm sure they're made of silicon!
Skynet is one cheap bastard then. There isn't very much of it.

Procutus wrote: View Post
I'm a little foggy on that myself. Was that Future-John he was seeing? And since the dog wasn't going ballistic on Cam, was she the real deal?
He's realizing that with him not existing in this timeline, Derek, Kyle, and Allison are still alive.
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Old April 11 2009, 05:41 AM   #154
Snaploud
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

BenRoethig wrote: View Post
Procutus wrote: View Post
I'm a little foggy on that myself. Was that Future-John he was seeing? And since the dog wasn't going ballistic on Cam, was she the real deal?
He's realizing that with him not existing in this timeline, Derek, Kyle, and Allison are still alive.
Those deaths might simply not have happened yet. We don't know how far John traveled into the future.
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Old April 11 2009, 05:56 AM   #155
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Snaploud wrote: View Post
Well, they did make a big deal (in this episode) about how moving John Henry would change his essence.

Good season finale, by the way. I'm trying to decide whether it could work as a series ender...I'll have to mull it over for a while.
I haven't read the books, comics and all the other materials people reference the Terminator universe to. So in my mind we won't know how it works as a finale until we see Salvation.
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Old April 11 2009, 05:56 AM   #156
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

This show needs another season.
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Old April 11 2009, 05:59 AM   #157
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
Snaploud wrote: View Post
Well, they did make a big deal (in this episode) about how moving John Henry would change his essence.

Good season finale, by the way. I'm trying to decide whether it could work as a series ender...I'll have to mull it over for a while.
I haven't read the books, comics and all the other materials people reference the Terminator universe to. So in my mind we won't know how it works as a finale until we see Salvation.
TSCC has no bearing on Salvation in any way.
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Old April 11 2009, 06:00 AM   #158
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Snaploud wrote: View Post
BenRoethig wrote: View Post
Procutus wrote: View Post
I'm a little foggy on that myself. Was that Future-John he was seeing? And since the dog wasn't going ballistic on Cam, was she the real deal?
He's realizing that with him not existing in this timeline, Derek, Kyle, and Allison are still alive.
Those deaths might simply not have happened yet. We don't know how far John traveled into the future.
True. The most likely time period, however, is 2027 due to the ages of the actors. Its also where the majority of our future war scenes come from.

What I kinda hope they do is, and its off the wall, is explore a concept from the comics. John Connor didn't exist in the timeline: he was born as Jane Connor and the Resistance actually won the war faster under her leadership.
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Old April 11 2009, 06:02 AM   #159
nx1701g
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

hyzmarca wrote: View Post
Brent wrote: View Post
hyzmarca wrote: View Post
I don't think Cameron's program is as sophisticated as John Henry's. She was made for one purpose, to kill, and limited so that she wouldn't become too willful. John Henry was made to learn, with no such limits. He can play with Bionicle action figures. That alone makes him substantially more sophisticated than any Terminator. That he can also play Dungeons and Dragons, and is appropriately excited about rolling a natural 20, hints at a level of free will and imagination far greater than any Terminator is capible of.
Even if that is so, and his program is "bigger" I still think he would fit just fine on a Terminator chip, witih room to spare. It is my opinion that Terminator hardware is way more advanced than today's computer hardware.
Storage space isn't really much of an issue. The bigger problem is number of threads, clock cycles, architecture differences, and program optimization.
John Henry is a highly parallel program designed to run as many threads on many different processors simultaneously

Programs are written for the hardware they're designed to work on. They have to be. If they're written for the wrong hardware, then they won't run. Architecture standards help, but porting a program across architecture standards requires either extensive rewriting, a hardware emulator, or a host program that actually communicates with the hardware for the client program (as with Java). Most likely, in order to run John Henry, a sophisticated hardware emulator is required to simulate his home environment on Cameron's chip. Emulating highly parallel hardware is difficult due to synchronization issues, even on superior highly parallel hardware.

Most likely, the chip wouldn't be able to run nearly as many simultaneous threads as John Henry's native hardware can, particularly when emulating John Henry's native hardware, and a great deal of processing power would go to ensuring that the emulated hardware remains correctly synchronized. This would limit him.

Furthermore, Cameron's chip will not have the raw clockrate that John Henry's servers have. High clockrates produce massive amounts of heat, and Terminator chips lack sophisticated heatsinks, apparently relying on highly parallel processing at lower clockrates. This might not be too bad, if the Cameron's chip architecture is much more efficient than John Henry's chip architecture she can have a high rate of operation completion even at lower clockrates, but much of Cameron's architectural advantages would be lost in the emulation process.

And yes, I am very much overthinking it.
I know it really has no bearing on this but in the New John Connor Chronicles (the novels) Skynet went back in time itself. It required six Terminator CPUs to effectively function.
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Old April 11 2009, 06:07 AM   #160
Ryan
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

hyzmarca wrote: View Post
Furthermore, Cameron's chip will not have the raw clockrate that John Henry's servers have.
Are you kidding? Her chip is from 20 years in the future. Look how far we've come in 20 years; a freakin' PS3 is over 1000 times more powerful than a Cray-2 super computer from 1989. And that wasn't even built by a super advanced AI that has no problem tackling things like liquid metal machines and time travel.

For me the biggest problem with the scene was that there's no way to get the chip from Cam to John Henry without both of them having to be shut down at the same time.
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Old April 11 2009, 06:13 AM   #161
hyzmarca
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Nays wrote: View Post
melancholymecha wrote: View Post
I almost lost it when Cameron was sitting on John's bed and then said she wanted to show him her body. That's like my fantasy dream! Then she took off her shirt, and took off her bra! I would have lost it right there if I were in John's place. Heck yeah i would have made out with her, robot or not! I guess we CAN say that John has been inside her now hehe
uh, can someone please explain what the point of that scene was(other than one last go at fan-service?)
She was having John check her nuclear battery for damage. It was cold so it was safe.

at least thats what i assumed.
Dramatically, it was a sex scene. Checking the battery for damage was the justification, but it was a sex scene, totally.


And it has the same dramatic impact as a sex scene, pretty much cementing John's feelings for her.
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Old April 11 2009, 06:16 AM   #162
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

hyzmarca wrote: View Post
I don't think Cameron's program is as sophisticated as John Henry's. She was made for one purpose, to kill, and limited so that she wouldn't become too willful. John Henry was made to learn, with no such limits. He can play with Bionicle action figures. That alone makes him substantially more sophisticated than any Terminator. That he can also play Dungeons and Dragons, and is appropriately excited about rolling a natural 20, hints at a level of free will and imagination far greater than any Terminator is capible of.
"This is my Neural net CPU. A learning computer." T 800, T-2.

They have the ability to LEARN. To be able to play is simply part of that learned ability.
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Old April 11 2009, 06:18 AM   #163
Brent
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

hyzmarca wrote: View Post
Brent wrote: View Post
hyzmarca wrote: View Post
I don't think Cameron's program is as sophisticated as John Henry's. She was made for one purpose, to kill, and limited so that she wouldn't become too willful. John Henry was made to learn, with no such limits. He can play with Bionicle action figures. That alone makes him substantially more sophisticated than any Terminator. That he can also play Dungeons and Dragons, and is appropriately excited about rolling a natural 20, hints at a level of free will and imagination far greater than any Terminator is capible of.
Even if that is so, and his program is "bigger" I still think he would fit just fine on a Terminator chip, witih room to spare. It is my opinion that Terminator hardware is way more advanced than today's computer hardware.
Storage space isn't really much of an issue. The bigger problem is number of threads, clock cycles, architecture differences, and program optimization.
John Henry is a highly parallel program designed to run as many threads on many different processors simultaneously

Programs are written for the hardware they're designed to work on. They have to be. If they're written for the wrong hardware, then they won't run. Architecture standards help, but porting a program across architecture standards requires either extensive rewriting, a hardware emulator, or a host program that actually communicates with the hardware for the client program (as with Java). Most likely, in order to run John Henry, a sophisticated hardware emulator is required to simulate his home environment on Cameron's chip. Emulating highly parallel hardware is difficult due to synchronization issues, even on superior highly parallel hardware.

Most likely, the chip wouldn't be able to run nearly as many simultaneous threads as John Henry's native hardware can, particularly when emulating John Henry's native hardware, and a great deal of processing power would go to ensuring that the emulated hardware remains correctly synchronized. This would limit him.

Furthermore, Cameron's chip will not have the raw clockrate that John Henry's servers have. High clockrates produce massive amounts of heat, and Terminator chips lack sophisticated heatsinks, apparently relying on highly parallel processing at lower clockrates. This might not be too bad, if the Cameron's chip architecture is much more efficient than John Henry's chip architecture she can have a high rate of operation completion even at lower clockrates, but much of Cameron's architectural advantages would be lost in the emulation process.

And yes, I am very much overthinking it.
I think you underestimate how fast technology can advance. Also, these are machines building machines, they can probably build more advanced computers a lot faster than humans can. Also, I doubt you have any information on how many FLOPs a Terminator can do.
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Old April 11 2009, 06:22 AM   #164
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

I had to WTF a bit at weaver coming through the time bubble nude
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Old April 11 2009, 06:23 AM   #165
Brent
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Re: Terminator-222 "Born to Run" - Season Finale <SPO>

Ryan wrote: View Post
For me the biggest problem with the scene was that there's no way to get the chip from Cam to John Henry without both of them having to be shut down at the same time.
That is a VERY good question
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