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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old May 31 2009, 10:04 PM   #76
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I always had a soft spot for Invasive Procedures. But I guess my reasons are rather superficial. For one thing, I love the feel of the abandoned station. It's like a ghost town and it would have been cool if there were more episodes with an empty station as the setting. I also dig the special effect shots of the station surrounded by the plasma disruption. They are nothing out of the ordinary, but I thought they were very successful in adding an eerie atmosphere to the episode.

But the main reason for my affection for this episode is John Glover's performance as Verad. He does a great job of introducing his character as very week and helpless, only to set it against the strong and self-confident Dax version we get to know after the joining. I also thought Terry Farrell delivers a particularly strong performance in the scenes after the symbiont has been taken away from her.

The episode is also interesting because we get to know a lot of information about how the Trill society and the whole symbiont/host relationship works.
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Old May 31 2009, 10:14 PM   #77
thedude
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
I always had a soft spot for Invasive Procedures. But I guess my reasons are rather superficial. For one thing, I love the feel of the abandoned station. It's like a ghost town and it would have been cool if there were more episodes with an empty station as the setting. I also dig the special effect shots of the station surrounded by the plasma disruption. They are nothing out of the ordinary, but I thought they were very successful in adding an eerie atmosphere to the episode.
I love the Empok Nor episodes. Just seeing it in the initial approach shots, I knew it would be awesome. All off kilter and clearly creepy... I really wish they'd done more with it... I would have loved to see some creepy evil mad scientist type guy take it over and start doing experiments... that would have been cool.

I agree on this decision. Gambit, Pt 1 is good, Gambit Pt 1 and Part 2 as a whole are better, and I think would stand up to Invasive Procedures, but that would break the rules. I liked seeing the TNG actors out of character and playing roles you weren't used to seeing them in. I thought Picard made a pretty bad ass pirate... maybe in a another life ;-)
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Old May 31 2009, 11:09 PM   #78
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
I always had a soft spot for Invasive Procedures. But I guess my reasons are rather superficial. For one thing, I love the feel of the abandoned station. It's like a ghost town and it would have been cool if there were more episodes with an empty station as the setting. I also dig the special effect shots of the station surrounded by the plasma disruption. They are nothing out of the ordinary, but I thought they were very successful in adding an eerie atmosphere to the episode.

But the main reason for my affection for this episode is John Glover's performance as Verad. He does a great job of introducing his character as very week and helpless, only to set it against the strong and self-confident Dax version we get to know after the joining. I also thought Terry Farrell delivers a particularly strong performance in the scenes after the symbiont has been taken away from her.

The episode is also interesting because we get to know a lot of information about how the Trill society and the whole symbiont/host relationship works.
Agreed with these reasons why "Invasive Procedures" is so good. "Gambit" is okay, but it's never been my favorite.

And, wouldn't it have been interesting if DS9 had been a much less busy (and therefore, more empty) place, at least at the beginning of the series? Spooky!
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Old June 1 2009, 12:31 AM   #79
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
But the main reason for my affection for this episode is John Glover's performance as Verad. He does a great job of introducing his character as very week and helpless, only to set it against the strong and self-confident Dax version we get to know after the joining.
I had completely forgotten that it was John Glover as Verad (Or, in truth, had not connected the dots - I remembered Verad, I've seen John Glover elsewhere, but hadn't put the two together. Maybe it's just that Verad had tamed hair on his head and no facial hair...). Damn, now I need to get my hands on a Season 2 DVD set and watch this episode again.
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Old June 1 2009, 02:21 AM   #80
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I would have gone with Gambit, I've never been fond of Invasive Procedures. Part of it might have to do with coming down off the high of the Circle trilogy, any episode which followed such greatness would have trouble measuring up, but I also hate how Quark is used in the episode. He assisted terrorists in a raid on the station, it always felt very out of character and I never bought into it.
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Old June 1 2009, 02:33 AM   #81
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

GodBen wrote: View Post
... I also hate how Quark is used in the episode. He assisted terrorists in a raid on the station, it always felt very out of character and I never bought into it.
Neither did I. I guess the writers thought having Quark help in the attempt to save Jadzia would be seen as redeeming the character. Personally I'm not convinced that it worked.

Oh, and for what it's worth, Armin Shimerman seems to agree with us. From the companion ...
I worry when Quark doesn't get punished for really sizable crimes. It makes the character less important since his acts trigger no consequences, and it makes Odo look a little foolish, in that he's the law keeper and he can't get this little troll punished.
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Old June 1 2009, 08:07 PM   #82
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Week 5: (Ending 10.24.93)
TNG: Gambit, Part II (Airdate 10.18.93)
DS9: Cardassians (Airdate 10.24.93)

This is unfair. Really, it is. TNG came swinging out on all fronts, giving it as good as its gotten this season. The pirate-ship intrigue, more Data in command (I really wish we could have seen more of this...), more rogue-Picard mixed in with archeology-fanboy Picard, more fun scene-chewing antagonism between Stewart and Frakes, seeing Worf as second-in-command for the first time, and a brilliant cameo by NBA Hall-Of-Famer James Worthy!!! This is a fun, fun episode!

Yet, DS9 was just that little bit better.

Drama. That's the clincher. I'm all for political intrigue and social commentary and Garak-Dukat conflict (the two are in the same room in only one scene, yet the animosity between the two can be felt throughout the episode), but it's the tragedy of Rugal that raises this episode much higher. Especially so when he slaps O'Brien's own inherent dislike of Cardassians right in the chief's face; brilliant scene.

As much fun as Gambit is, it doesn't carry the same emotional gravitas as Cardassians. The young show manages to take another squeaker of a round, but both combatants are showing signs of fatigue after duking it out so hard lately -or in other words, get ready for a series of 'meh' episodes in the coming weeks.

Weekly Winner:
DS9

Next:
TNG: Phantasms
DS9: Melora
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Old June 2 2009, 09:03 PM   #83
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
GodBen wrote: View Post
... I also hate how Quark is used in the episode. He assisted terrorists in a raid on the station, it always felt very out of character and I never bought into it.
Neither did I. I guess the writers thought having Quark help in the attempt to save Jadzia would be seen as redeeming the character. Personally I'm not convinced that it worked.

Oh, and for what it's worth, Armin Shimerman seems to agree with us. From the companion ...
I worry when Quark doesn't get punished for really sizable crimes. It makes the character less important since his acts trigger no consequences, and it makes Odo look a little foolish, in that he's the law keeper and he can't get this little troll punished.
Now, I'd forgotten about that. It's very true and a very good point - this was a mistake.

And how can anything beat "Cardassians"?

I see next week is a real slugging-match.
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Old June 3 2009, 07:48 AM   #84
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

This is a facinating project. I have TNG and DS9 and haven't watched any of them for awhile. I'm looking forward to following you when I can.
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Old June 3 2009, 01:05 PM   #85
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Week 6: (Ending 10.31.93)
TNG: Phantasms (Airdate 10.25.93)
DS9: Melora (Airdate 10.31.93)

On a Very Special episode of Star Trek this week, the crew learns a valuable lesson about how to treat an individual with a handicap with respect, and this individual also learns that her handicap isn't as bad as it seems if it means sacrificing her heritage. However, when Captain Picard an-

Huh? What do you mean Melora wasn't the TNG episode? It has all the hallmarks of a TNG Message Show, plus DS9 hasn't done any Romance Shows either, so... Oh, it was the DS9 episode. Huh, go figure eh?

Alright, as much apathy as most folks have for Melora, the, er, Melora stuff isn't all that bad, and for DS9's first Romance Show, it was agreeable filler; plus, you have to enjoy the little touches they added that makes the Trek Universe seem much more alive and real (Klingon Restaurant! Vulcan Composers! And an honest discussion about 'Sub-Space Relationships'? Heh, no wonder they never work) But, the Quark stuff was incredibly pointless (beyond the odd Odo quip), plus the way they shoe-horn it into the Melora storyline makes the climax, well, unfortunately silly. I can see how Quark would have started to grate on an audience at this point, as he's done nothing but caused headaches for everyone (The Siege, Invasive Procedures, and now with this episode, he's 3-for-6 this season in being an annoyance -and with nary a punishment either!).

Oh, the TNG episode? Erm, it gets bonus points for surrealness (Counseller Cake, with mint frosting!), and funny little character moments (Worf handling Spot, an agitated Picard hovering about in engineering, etc.). I'm not sure if I buy into the inter-whasit parasites, but it was certainly creepy seeing those things for the first time -perfect for Halloween Week. Ooh! And fresh SFX shots of the Enterprise-D! Love the standard 'zip by screen' shot, only for the warp nacelle flash to just fizzle out. TNG gets the squeaker edge here.

Weekly Winner:
TNG

Next:
TNG: Dark Page
DS9: Rules Of Aquisition
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Old June 3 2009, 03:51 PM   #86
thedude
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I agree with you here Sykonee.

Melora is a good episode, with some fantastic Siddig wire-work (I'm sure he loved those scenes) but it doesn't stand up against the sheer creepiness of Phantasms. I understand the DS9'ers were trying to push a message across, about being handi-capable... but Melora wasn't handicapped, she was just from another race that lived in lower gravity... I wouldn't really consider that a handicap, just a difference... it'd be like saying French people are handicapped in America because they don't speak English... doesn't really cut it for me, but what do I know? ;-)
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Old June 3 2009, 08:04 PM   #87
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Melora is a good episode, with some fantastic Siddig wire-work (I'm sure he loved those scenes) but it doesn't stand up against the sheer creepiness of Phantasms. I understand the DS9'ers were trying to push a message across, about being handi-capable... but Melora wasn't handicapped, she was just from another race that lived in lower gravity... I wouldn't really consider that a handicap, just a difference... it'd be like saying French people are handicapped in America because they don't speak English... doesn't really cut it for me, but what do I know? ;-)
Really? I'd think it would be a handicap to have a body that's conditioned to exist in low gravity and then be asked to work in a higher gravity setting. Sure, maybe it's not the same as having physical handicaps that we're familiar with, but Federation medical science seems capable of fixing most handicaps we'd understand as handicaps as soon as possible (though obviously, blindness is still a problem). Having someone who was born a parapalegic (sp), for example, also wouldn't be in the same position as Melora - to her, it's not only the way things are, it's how her species evolved, so everyone back home is like she is. The parapalegic would be someone who would WANT to be able to get around without the chair or cane, but Melora would desire to go back home at least occasionally.
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Old June 3 2009, 08:09 PM   #88
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
Really? I'd think it would be a handicap to have a body that's conditioned to exist in low gravity and then be asked to work in a higher gravity setting. Sure, maybe it's not the same as having physical handicaps that we're familiar with, but Federation medical science seems capable of fixing most handicaps we'd understand as handicaps as soon as possible (though obviously, blindness is still a problem). Having someone who was born a parapalegic (sp), for example, also wouldn't be in the same position as Melora - to her, it's not only the way things are, it's how her species evolved, so everyone back home is like she is. The parapalegic would be someone who would WANT to be able to get around without the chair or cane, but Melora would desire to go back home at least occasionally.
I agree with you on the core of the definition of the word, but just because she comes from a race that exists in low gravity doesn't mean she's disabled by the common convention of the term. She's completely "normal" by her races standards, however appears to "function" perfectly, just not so well in what we consider normal gravity. I just don't see that as a disability, or a handicap... just a difference! BTW, the glass is always half full :-)
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Old June 5 2009, 07:38 PM   #89
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Week 7: (Ending 11.07.93)
TNG: Dark Page (Airdate 11.01.93)
DS9: Rules Of Acquisition (Airdate 11.07.93)

It's a Troi story. With her mother. The opening seems to suggest another Diplomatic Episode as well. Huh. Maybe that new SeaQuest show is on right now.

To be fair, there are a couple good scenes in Dark Page. Troi seeing her father, plus Barrett turns in a strong emotional performance here, proving again the Lwaxana character can be interesting when she's given meaty material and not corny 'comedy' all the time. Unfortunately, unless you're a major Troi fan, this is mostly a dry episode. I can't see many terribly intrigued by a Troi backstory, even one with a tragic twist.

DS9, on the other hand, makes me laugh. No, really! I think I take Dax's advice to heart for this episode, because I can't help but find Quark's, Zek's, and even Rom's antics highly enjoyable, which is a far cry from the annoying shite we've had to put up with from Quark this season. I'm sure this will be hotly contested, but I feel Rules Of Acquisition did a lot to make the Ferengi likable. Like Dax says, "once you accept [their traits], you'll find they can be a lot of fun."

DS9 didn't have a great episode this week -heck, it didn't even have a good episode- but it was more entertaining than TNG's. The Ferengi get a surprising win.

Eh? That 'Dominion' thing? Ah, I'm sure it isn't important. Probably about as inconsequential as that child actress in Dark Page.

Weekly Winner:
DS9

Next:
TNG - Attached
DS9 - Necessary Evil
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Old June 5 2009, 08:49 PM   #90
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Eh, myself I liked "Dark Page." But "Rules of Acquisition" was interesting for its insights into the Ferengi. Neither are particularly my favorite.
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