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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old April 15 2010, 07:43 AM   #766
Kai Winn
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Harvey wrote: View Post
My memory of Moments of Transition is a bit vague, but Scorpion is a pretty strong season finale. VOY might actually squeak out a win.
might is good. voy's heydays are coming, i don't expect many wins for the competition anymore.

for comparisons, the single season of space above and beyond in 95/96 might have served well.
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Old April 15 2010, 11:33 AM   #767
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

might is good. voy's heydays are coming, i don't expect many wins for the competition anymore.
Uh, right!

Aside from Scorpion, Year of Hell, Message in a Bottle, and Living Witness, I would take most of DS9 Season 6 over Voyager season 4. That's not saying that its bad, there are some other episodes in there that I like, but an episode like Revulsion winning against say Sacrifice of Angels, or The Killing Game winning against In the Pale Moonlight? Not going to happen I'm afraid.
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Old April 15 2010, 02:29 PM   #768
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

What this thread clearly needs is more Whedonverse! Where is Buffy amongst all these shenanigans?

I would have voted Blaze of Glory too - it sends the Maquis out in as respectable a way as they came in.
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Old April 15 2010, 09:31 PM   #769
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Seven Of Five wrote: View Post
What this thread clearly needs is more Whedonverse! Where is Buffy amongst all these shenanigans?

I would have voted Blaze of Glory too - it sends the Maquis out in as respectable a way as they came in.
As opposed to the whimper they went out with in Voyager.
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Old April 19 2010, 12:00 AM   #770
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Rumors, Bargains and Lies is a bit of a curate's egg in my opinion. The Delenn stuff is good, especially because it involves Neroon, but I'm not that keen on the parts with Sheridan and the League.
Blaze of Glory is good. A decent end to the Sisko vs Eddington arc that continues the recent ominous mood, with confrontation with the Dominion looming.
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Old April 19 2010, 10:19 AM   #771
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Week 29: (Ending 05.25.97)
DS9 - Empok Nor (Airdate 05.19.97)
VOY - Scorpion (Airdate 05.21.97)
B5 - Moments Of Transition (Airdate 05.22.97)

It's Funtime With Shadowy Lighting again, with your host Mike Vejar behind the camera once more. This week, he gets to film a spooooooky DS9 episode, where a duo of murderous Cardassians gruesomely slaughter a series of goldshirts before Garak manages to take 'em out. But now he's become a murderous Cardassian as well, and only O'Brien can stop him, because his name's in the opening credits.

Heh, alright, you have to give Empok Nor credit for the atmosphere it creates. I can't recall a single episode of Trek that felt as tense as this one does. It's just a shame the plot dissolves into standard 'outwit the altered character' motif we get so often with the show.

B5 had an oddly quiet episode this week, which is surprising considering it offers the resolution to the Minbari conflict. The trouble is we haven't had much opportunity to feel involved in it, so its conclusion with the Starfire ritual doesn't come across as climatic as it could. I was more interested in the Lyta sub-plot than the Minbari plot, although that may just be due to Bester being involved. And why'd they have to go and off Neroon, huh? He's such a fascinating character, a fresh perspective of the Minbari mindset (which, unfortunately, tends to be mostly religious centered where the show is concerned).

But yeah, VOY easily wins this week. It's an Event Episode, and a pretty damned good one at that! Yet, it's also a Character Episode, specifically Janeway's obsession in trying to find a quick solution to their dilemma. It's rare (and refreshing!) to see Chakotay take her to task over it. Not to mention this Season Finale ends on one of the biggest bangs of all the shows: a whole freakin' planet gets blowed up!

As an aside, I wonder what's up with VOY's obsession ending their seasons with a 'cheese' theme all the time. Check it:

Learning Curve: Ship comes under attack from cheese
Basics: Ship comes under attack from cheesy villains
Scorpion: Borg cubes get turned into Swiss cheese

I find it quite puzzling.

Anyhow, VOY takes this week, and now the shows do their usual summer hiatus, save DS9 coming back for the two-episode June offering. Or... wait! B5 isn't going into summer re-runs right now after all. Hmm... if Sheridan's going on the offensive now, and they continue through to DS9's Season Finale, things could get very interesting in June for a change...

Weekly Winner
VOY

Next:
B5 - No Surrender, No Retreat
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Last edited by Sykonee; April 20 2010 at 03:59 AM.
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Old April 19 2010, 12:19 PM   #772
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Scorpion is easily in my VOY Top 5, so it clearly wins this week. Back in the day before the Borg were used often, the episode had a real sense of tension throughout. 8472 were mysterious and strong, putting the Borg in their place. I also loved the conflict between Janeway and Chakotay. The captain was becoming obsessed in her desire to get the crew home at any cost, and Chuckles really argued his point really well.

Empok Nor was the last new DS9 episode I ever saw, and what a disappointment! Don't know how I missed it first run, but when I finally got around to it I found I shouldn't have bothered. Mike Vejar does some awesome direction though.

I enjoyed B5's conclusion to the Minbari arc, but like you said it was only just getting going. I was just about getting invested in it but then it was all over. Was this a casualty of JMS's abridged season 4? Mira Furlan was excellent throghout regardless.
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Old April 19 2010, 07:01 PM   #773
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I'm pretty sure Voyager wins here, but it's been so long since I saw Scorpion that I don't have anything to say about it.

Of the other two, B5 wins pretty easily. Empok Nor is beautifully filmed and atmospheric, but it doesn't have enough story to be really compelling. It's decent, but slight. Moments of Transition is, in my opinion, the best episode since Atonement, or maybe even Epiphanies. There's a lot going on here and it has the advantage of including both Bester and Neroon, which is pretty much a recipe for goodness. The Minbari arc wasn't that spectacular, but it came to a good conclusion here. I was gutted to see Neroon go though, he was great.
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Old April 19 2010, 08:10 PM   #774
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I've run out of cats.
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Old April 19 2010, 08:28 PM   #775
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
I've run out of cats.
Start on the puppies. We can get through this. All it takes is the willingness to try a little variety in your sadism.
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Old April 19 2010, 08:53 PM   #776
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Okay, but I'll only strangle seal pups, I love dogs too much to harm them.
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Old April 20 2010, 01:11 PM   #777
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

over in the voy forum someone mentioned that 8472 looks a little like the shadows of b5 because they were made by the same fx company. yes, but there is more 8472 to watch in scorpion 1, than shadows in four seasons of b5. when they get a win here, it's my turn to kill a kitten. almost any sf show which is not star trek has a cheap feeling about it, including b5. liked it when it was aired back in the nineties, when i watch it's episodes now, i squirm in pain. hate it when there is some interior scene with low sound, followed by a panorama shot of the station with dreadful and noisy sound effects. i also disagree with almost any lesson of the show. i don't like the authority and obedience of the vorlons and minbari, i see no point in religion, and the rangers, heroes of the show, babbling 'we live for the one, and die for the one', remind me of the jem hadar or jihadistas on this planet. they're the future of mankind? thanks, but no thanks.
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Old April 20 2010, 04:19 PM   #778
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Kai Winn wrote: View Post
but there is more 8472 to watch in scorpion 1, than shadows in four seasons of b5.
You mean the one scene where homeboy bursts through the wall and cell-rapes Kim? The one that lasted roughly 20 seconds? Oh, and two 3-second flashes of their mugs, so... 30 seconds, if we're generous. Compared to 4 seasons of B5, where we see a Shadow in the opening credits throughout S3.

Yeah, that's an obvious attempt to rile up Fivers, methinks.


Week 30: (Ending 06.01.97)
B5 - No Surrender, No Retreat (Airdate 05.29.97)

This is the one.

For much of its run, I'd known B5 as simply "that other sci-fi show", occasionally stumbling across an episode here or there but never really investing any time into it. Though there were things I found interesting regarding the characters and some of the plots, it failed to actually grab me.

When I watched a summer repeat of this episode on a whim, however, I realized I was denying myself something quite worth watching after all. Not that this is an absolutely stellar, holy-shit, tour-de-force, gosh-darned wicked-awesome episode or anything, but what it does good, it does good!

For one thing, the retaking of Proxima was great, and not just because I'm a bit of a fanboy of the Omega Destroyer starship design. Well, okay, it's a good deal to do with that, and we get to see a whole bunch of 'em in action here, something we haven't had the chance to see since last season's Severed Dreams (which I'd missed first run, obviously). But the action and strategy was quite well done, something that hadn't really been done on Trek up to this point.

Then you have Londo and G'Kar. Yes, again. I didn't know the drink was actually a parallel to an earlier scene, but I still knew of the animosity between the two, thus understood the significance of their mutual agreement to support Sheridan's campaign. I could only think, "Wow, this show has changed a lot, and for the better!"

And then, the episode ends with Garibaldi leaving the station, which totally floored me. Of the few episode's I'd watched prior, he was always one of my favorite characters. He seemed so loyal to Sheridan and to his cause; why is he somberly leaving for Mars? What's going on? I don't want to see the show shaken up like this! I gotta tune in next week to see what happens next.

Wait... when did I start caring about what happens on this show? Holy shit! I've become a Fiver!

Of course, had I actually watched the show continuously from the beginning, some of these questions would have been somewhat answered, but then this episode wouldn't have had quite the same impact on me as it did. Anyhow, this was where I officially became a Fiver. Funnily enough, even though I became a fan of this show after I'd become a Niner, the episode that swayed me to DS9 didn't originally air until after this one.

Weekly Winner
B5

Next:
B5 - The Exercise Of Vital Powers
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Last edited by Sykonee; April 20 2010 at 07:03 PM.
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Old April 21 2010, 02:51 PM   #779
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Week 31: (Ending 06.08.97)
B5 - The Exercise Of Vital Powers (Airdate 06.05.97)

A quieter episode, this. Mostly featuring Garibaldi's trip to Mars, and getting to know this Edgars fella' that hired him way back. Quite a bit of exposition detailing yet another group working against Clark, which is rather interesting. Hard to tell whether these mega-corps are working in favor of Earth, or against. They seem legit, but only in a self-serving way; plus, they're working against Sheridan's campaign, though for sound reasons. Also some ominous foreshadow regarding the Shadow-raped telepaths - Sheridan's got something planned for them, and Franklin don't like it one bit.

So basically a tide-over, arc-plot, set-up type of episode, with a little more development concerning the Garibaldi/Lise relationship. Good enough for a win this week, but there ain't anything else on at the moment anyway. Not so next week. For once, DS9's gonna have to fight for a win in June!

Weekly Winner
B5

Next:
DS9 - In The Cards
B5 - The Face Of The Enemy
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Old April 21 2010, 09:57 PM   #780
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

The Face of the Enemy is my favorite episode of B5, due much to Mike Vejar's direction, but also to many other elements. I like In the Cards, but not that much...
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