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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old March 12 2010, 11:06 PM   #691
Eyes
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Kai Winn wrote: View Post
no doubt, you'll heap praise upon rapture just because it's ds9, and macrocosm is a blatant alien rip-off because it's voyager.
Kai Winn wrote: View Post
i watched 7th season's 'chimera' earlier this week. nice scene when laas it attacked by a klingon with a dagger, and he shapes his arm into a sword. "mine is bigger". a 'terminator' ripp-off? 'crocodile dundee'? everything is reused.
So, Macrocosm can't be a rip-off of Alien, at all?

And yet Chimera is a blatant rip-off of Terminator and Crocodile Dundee?

I don't think anyone is throwing stones at Voyager for being Voyager, its just Macrocosm was Janeway running around in a sweaty tank top fighting viruses that defy physics, and Coda was one huge steaming pile of crap made up of several good TNG episodes moshed together.
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Old March 12 2010, 11:34 PM   #692
Pemmer Harge
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

The problem with Macrocosm, as I see it, isn't that it's a rip-off of Aliens, it's that it's not a very good rip-off of Aliens!
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Old March 12 2010, 11:51 PM   #693
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Kai Winn wrote: View Post
Geck wrote: View Post
Kai Winn wrote: View Post
looked a couple of star trek data bases with episode rankings up, macrocosm is everywhere better rated than rapture, rapture in fact counts as one of ds9's poorest episodes.
.....guh? Where are these databases?
lets start with the probably best: http://ditl.org/
I've never heard of that site either...what qualifies it as "the best"? The site design is a mess and a lot of the ratings for other episodes are highly questionable.

Looking at the Spoiler-Free Opinion Summary, which gives a pretty solid view of audience opinion, Rapture has a rating of 8.8 based on 610 votes. Macrocosm, meanwhile, has a rating of 6.6 based on 645 votes.

Even on tv.com (admittedly much less reputable), Rapture is significantly higher rated than Macrocosm based on ~100 viewer votes.

So your claim that "everywhere" Macrocosm is more highly rated and that Rapture is one of DS9's worst received episodes is pretty much bunk.
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Old March 13 2010, 10:18 AM   #694
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I love Rapture. A spiritual episode that takes Sisko's relationship with the Prophets to another level, with him willing to die so that he can continue receiving his visions. The announcement of Locusts coming was very eerie at the time too. Jake also rocked in this one, being totally distraught at the thought of losing his father.

Macrocosm and Coda are quite poor VOY episodes, but like I said there are much better ones. I do really like VOY, but season three has quite a poor run. Also agree with GodBen - the internet is so vast that anyone can find a website that sides with their argument.
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Old March 13 2010, 05:49 PM   #695
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

To be fair to Daystrom Institute, it's been around for quite a long time, and was sort of a proto-Trek wiki, rounding up all sorts of fun facts about the Trekverse, and a number of the articles are good reading, and the Ship Size Chart is fun to play with. They even tried to make in-universe sense of some of the franchises' more daft ideas like travelling to the center of the galaxy in STV.

That said, I seldom put much stock in their episode rating system. They just couldn't compare to guys like Jammer or ...um, geez, what was that guy before Jammer again? Even did TNG reviews back in the usenet days? Cripes, that's ages ago!
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Old March 13 2010, 07:24 PM   #696
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Sykonee wrote: View Post
That said, I seldom put much stock in their episode rating system. They just couldn't compare to guys like Jammer or ...um, geez, what was that guy before Jammer again? Even did TNG reviews back in the usenet days? Cripes, that's ages ago!
Tim Lynch? Yeah, I still read his and Jammer's reviews after watching almost any episode.
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Old March 14 2010, 10:37 AM   #697
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
Ah, Aliens! Now that was a great film. Unfortunately, Star Trek has never been able to approach that level of intensity, not in Starship Mine, not in First Contact and certainly not here. It's sort of OK, but I'd rather be watching Sigourney!
How about Genesis and Terok Nor? Perhaps not quite the same level, but not quite so far off either.
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Old March 15 2010, 03:05 AM   #698
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Week 15: (Ending 01.12.97)
DS9 - The Darkness And The Light (Airdate 01.06.97)
VOY - Fair Trade (Airdate 01.08.97)

Both these episodes are nothing more than blatant B5 rip-offs. I mean, just look at the way they're directed. It's like DS9 took a bunch of the shadow lighting and framework you see in the later seasons of B5 to do its episode, and VOY just style-bit the grungy Brown Sector station stuff. Huh, what's that? What about the directors? Oh...!

(Okay, no sense running that gag into the ground anymore.)

It's quite the coincidence here to have the Trek debut of both Trevino and Vejar (let's just ignore that S1 episode of TNG, k'?) on the same week, who'd both been earning paychecks directing B5 episodes for a while by now. And fortunately for them, they get to sink their teeth into some meaty material. DS9 has Kira back to her uncompromising kick-ass ways and VOY does the unthinkable and gives Neelix yet another strong episode.

Here's the real kicker though: VOY actually had the better episode, as we get to see consequences. Once Kira goes on her revenge quest, she breaks a whole bunch of rules and recklessly endangers O'Brien's child in the process. I can buy into the former as being in character but she seems to get away with it all, at least as portrayed on screen. Neelix, on the other hand, gets a good ol' Janeway Lecture for his troubles, but also a renewed sense of self-worth in the process - that, despite becoming even more useless than he was before (zing!), he is still a part of the VOY family and will be able to contribute in some way.

So in short: good, fresh character development for Neelix, while Kira's character gets a re-graying for those who'd forgotten who she was in the early seasons - which, as a result, is simply retreading ground we've already been with her. I do believe VOY has a win this week.

Weekly Winner
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Next:
VOY - Alter Ego
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Last edited by Sykonee; March 15 2010 at 03:36 AM.
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Old March 15 2010, 03:33 AM   #699
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

But... but... but... Voyager teh suxor!


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Old March 15 2010, 03:53 AM   #700
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Sykonee wrote: View Post
Once Kira goes on her revenge quest, she breaks a whole bunch of rules and recklessly endangers O'Brien's child in the process.
That has always really bothered me, especially the fact that there were no repercussions at all. Not even any indication that the O'Brien's were even upset with her.
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Old March 15 2010, 08:23 AM   #701
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I suppose I agree, I really did enjoy Fair Trade. Neelix has come to the end of his Delta Quadrant knowledge, and is worried Janeway will turf him out on his arse. As funny as *that* episode would have been, him using desperate measures to prove his usefulness was very appealing. Janeway reaching out to him at the end was sweet also. I do like Neelix episodes, which sounds yukky to say, but there it is. His character is interesting in his spotlights, but then he's totally misused the other 95% of the time.

The Darkness and the Light starts off strong, but kind of wavers towards the end. And yes, Kira running off into trouble without any input from the O'Briens was disconcerting. Kira had been a bit watered down when she became pregnant, so it was good to see her back to her usual self. Just a bit too extreme I think under the circumstances.

VOY wins? Teh world is endings!
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Old March 15 2010, 07:41 PM   #702
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I like The Darkness and the Light a lot. In fact, Kira's confrontation with Prin is one of my favourite scenes on DS9. And the baby thing? Didn't even occur to me and indeed still doesn't! It's cool to have Mike Vejar working on the show as well.
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Old March 15 2010, 07:53 PM   #703
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Part of me wanted Kira to get it in the neck in that episode. She never started being likeable for me until she finally got with Odo.
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Old March 15 2010, 08:28 PM   #704
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Sykonee wrote: View Post
Once Kira goes on her revenge quest, she breaks a whole bunch of rules and recklessly endangers O'Brien's child in the process.
The thing about that is...the child was in danger regardless of whether Kira did or didn't go after Silarin. He was trying to kill her, after all, and I don't doubt that if she'd been in the O'Brien's quarters with Furel and Lupaza he'd still have blown the window out, baby or no baby.

What really was her alternative?

Sykonee wrote: View Post
Next:
VOY - Alter Ego
Oh, why couldn't TDATL have gone up against this one? I've been trying to rewatch Voyager lately, but season three just utterly killed what little enthusiasm I had left for it, and Alter Ego is the episode that finally made me give up on the whole series and throw my DVDs on ebay...
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Old March 15 2010, 09:41 PM   #705
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Kinggodzillak wrote: View Post
The thing about that is...the child was in danger regardless of whether Kira did or didn't go after Silarin. He was trying to kill her, after all, and I don't doubt that if she'd been in the O'Brien's quarters with Furel and Lupaza he'd still have blown the window out, baby or no baby.

What really was her alternative?
I s'pose that's true but, again, the lack of seeing any sort of consequences for her actions is what hurts here. The ending has a sort of "Oh, well, she got the bad guy, so I guess all's well in the end" feeling to it, which shouldn't be the case considering how reckless she did act. Granted, they were probably short on time, and it's not like it ruins the episode or anything. It simply comes off unfinished.

Week 16: (Ending 01.19.97)
VOY - Alter Ego (Airdate 01.15.97)

Hm, maybe I discontinued the "Blatant Rip-Off Watch" prematurely. Oh well.

I like the ending of this episode. It's nothing groundbreaking but it at least has sincerity and heart to it. The part between Marayna and Tuvok that is, when he's on her station. Oh, and a lot of those new FX shots of Voyager sure look spiffy!

The rest of Alter Ego is meh. I really don't care about Harry getting all butt-hurt and jealous over a freakin' holodeck character (seriously, wha'?), much less feeling he has competition with Tuvok. After all, we know (or at least figure, given that he's Vulcan and all) he would never cheat on his beloved back home. That's just silly, though not as silly as the Evil Attack of the Luau Minions! Mwa haha!!!

Both shows skip a week, then come right back against each other again. Geez, this has been a wonky January schedule, huh? Oh, and B5 returns as well. Missed that!

Weekly Winner
VOY

Next:
DS9 - The Begotten
VOY - Coda
B5 - The Long Night
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Last edited by Sykonee; March 15 2010 at 09:58 PM.
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