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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old October 19 2009, 03:02 PM   #301
Sykonee
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
If I were to have such an experiment, I cannot see any VOY season winning against a DS9 season. Even a weak DS9 season still had moments of greatness I never saw in VOY (it did have some great episodes... but DS9's best beats VOY's best), and DS9 season 3 was not one of its strongest, but wasn't its weakest either.
How about we look at this from the other side?

VOY may have had episodes like Ex Post Facto and Heroes And Demons, but it certainly did not have episodes like Meridian and Fascination. (yes, I liked the latter, but in the same way folks enjoy Ed Wood movies)

PS: This thread's breached 10,000 views! Woo! Thanks everyone!
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Old October 19 2009, 04:38 PM   #302
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Sykonee wrote: View Post
DevilEyes wrote: View Post
If I were to have such an experiment, I cannot see any VOY season winning against a DS9 season. Even a weak DS9 season still had moments of greatness I never saw in VOY (it did have some great episodes... but DS9's best beats VOY's best), and DS9 season 3 was not one of its strongest, but wasn't its weakest either.
How about we look at this from the other side?

VOY may have had episodes like Ex Post Facto and Heroes And Demons, but it certainly did not have episodes like Meridian and Fascination. (yes, I liked the latter, but in the same way folks enjoy Ed Wood movies)

PS: This thread's breached 10,000 views! Woo! Thanks everyone!
It depends what one values more, consistency with a huge number of mediocre episodes and a few really good ones, or a show that can go from utter brilliance to utter crap and back. The latter might be more frustrating, and I hate the worst episodes of DS9 a lot more than I hate any episodes of VOY, but I think that might be because of my preference as well: I care more for the characters on DS9, so when an episode or plot is making them act OCC or performing a character assassination, it really pisses me off. OTOH, if a VOY episode does the same to a VOY character, it doesn't bother me that much.

(Why don't we have a smiley for indifference, BTW?)
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Old October 19 2009, 06:38 PM   #303
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
(Why don't we have a smiley for indifference, BTW?)
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Old October 19 2009, 06:46 PM   #304
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

^ That poor little guy looks like he's being forced, possibly at gun point, to express disinterest. He keeps looking nervously to the left, as though beholding something threatening.
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Old October 19 2009, 06:58 PM   #305
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

The Adversary was a decent season finale, although I didn't think it was on the same level as The Jem'Hadar or B5's season finales. Nice to see Sisko get promoted.

Personally, I'm a big fan of DS9 Season 3. Seasons 1 and 2 had a lot of episodes that simply bored me, whereas I found this one more consistently entertaining. There were a few episodes I didn't like (Defiant, Heart of Stone, Meridian), but mostly I thought it was a lot of fun. I thought that the presence of the Dominion spiced things up very nicely and gave the show a bit more of a sense of direction (not as much as B5, but hey, they're different shows). I felt that certain characters sort of came into their own round about this time - especially Sisko, but also Bashir, Dax and maybe Odo, though he was already getting there. Plus it has Second Skin, which is one of my favourite episodes of Star Trek.

I can't judge Voyager Season 1, but if you put DS9 Season 3 up against B5 Season 2 up to Confessions and Lamentations as you have I guess, then DS9 probably wins. However, throw in the last four episodes of B5's second season and I'd have to choose differently.
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Old October 19 2009, 07:32 PM   #306
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Cat in a blender wrote: View Post
DevilEyes wrote: View Post
(Why don't we have a smiley for indifference, BTW?)
Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
^ That poor little guy looks like he's being forced, possibly at gun point, to express disinterest. He keeps looking nervously to the left, as though beholding something threatening.
That's not a disinterested emoticon, it's the shrugging emoticon, "I dunno".

Indifferent emoticon would be something like this or this or
maybe we can use the sleepy one

Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
The Adversary was a decent season finale, although I didn't think it was on the same level as The Jem'Hadar or B5's season finales. Nice to see Sisko get promoted.

Personally, I'm a big fan of DS9 Season 3. Seasons 1 and 2 had a lot of episodes that simply bored me, whereas I found this one more consistently entertaining. There were a few episodes I didn't like (Defiant, Heart of Stone, Meridian)
Why Defiant?
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Old October 19 2009, 07:55 PM   #307
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
Cat in a blender wrote: View Post
DevilEyes wrote: View Post
(Why don't we have a smiley for indifference, BTW?)
Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
^ That poor little guy looks like he's being forced, possibly at gun point, to express disinterest. He keeps looking nervously to the left, as though beholding something threatening.
That's not a disinterested emoticon, it's the shrugging emoticon, "I dunno".
Ah, that'd explain it then . It's an answer, not a suggested "disinterest" symbol. Although I think it could work; I tend to view that sort of apathetic shrugging as expressing disinterest...though you're right, we probably should have one distinct from "I dunno"...

I think the first example you gave looks like an "Oh, I'm disappointed in you, Son/Daughter" emoticon...or maybe I'm just feeling guilty about something...
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Last edited by Deranged Nasat; October 19 2009 at 08:13 PM.
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Old October 19 2009, 08:45 PM   #308
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

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Why Defiant?
Don't know really, I wanted to like it, but it didn't do it for me somehow. I wouldn't call it a bad episode like the other two I mentioned, just one I couldn't quite get into. But then, I liked Fascination so some of my opinions may be a bit weird
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Old October 19 2009, 10:46 PM   #309
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
I can't judge Voyager Season 1, but if you put DS9 Season 3 up against B5 Season 2 up to Confessions and Lamentations as you have I guess, then DS9 probably wins. However, throw in the last four episodes of B5's second season and I'd have to choose differently.
Since I compare the two shows as they aired against each other, I actually include Chrysalis here, which is one of the strongest Season Finales you're likely to come across. Plus, it wouldn't surprise me if some of B5's late S1 efforts were playing in re-runs while DS9 had that five-week solo run at the beginning of S3. Ultimately, B5 and DS9 did a lot of trading blows in the Fall, where the quality of their shows would continuously flip-flop from week to week.

By mid-season, B5 managed to right the ship somewhat to remain consistent, but DS9 unfortunately didn't, as we ended up with things like Heart Of Stone, Prophet Motive, Distant Voices, and Shakaar; not outright awful episodes, but definitely sub-par compared to what B5 was cranking out around the same time (Coming Of Shadows, Acts Of Sacrifice, In The Shadow Of Z'ha'dum, etc.), all the while B5's best managed to keep toe-to-toe with DS9's best (And Now For A Word and The Die Is Cast on the same week? Dayum!)

PS: Here's my indifferent smilie:
What problems?
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Old October 20 2009, 01:33 AM   #310
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Strictly out of curiosity, I decided to check out if my impression of each show's season might be different if I compared them a little differently. In a wholly un-scientific method, I gave each episode a 'Yay' or 'Nay' mark ('Yay' for above-average and, um, above; 'Nay' for below-average and, er, below), then compared the ratios of each show's Yays and Nays. Result:

DS9
16:10 = 1.60

VOY
8:7 = 1.14

B5 (including Chrysalis)
13:6 = 2.17

So, B5 still appears to have the better run of episodes out of the three, but perhaps I was unfairly critical of DS9 after all.

...I just really, really, really hate Meridian, alright?
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Old October 20 2009, 01:36 AM   #311
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I recently rewatched Meriadian but skipped all scenes of the A-plot, and it was surprisingly good.
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Old October 21 2009, 12:59 AM   #312
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Sykonee wrote: View Post
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I really liked "Jetrel", it was one of my favorite VOY episodes... not that this is saying much but it was a really good episode. However, I must disagree with you on the performances - I thought Sloyan was great, as always, but I was not impressed by Phillips. I see that quite a few people seem to appreciate his acting, but I found it to be very 'meh' and to me the biggest weakness of the episode was that all of Neelix's serious and emotional scenes fell flat and did not really move me, which they should have by all accounts. That's the biggest difference between this episode and "Duet".
True, it may not have been an amazing outing, but Phillips did something for Neelix that hadn't been managed for all of VOY's run thus far: he made Neelix sympathetic.
Just watched "Mortal Coil" today, and he was really good in this episode. I wonder if my problem in "Jetrel" wasn't that many of his emotional scenes were with Kes, and their scenes always felt fake because I didn't buy their relationship (even though in this case, they were at least not being "romantic" with each other). Generally, Neelix is far less annoying when he's not around Kes. It's odd that his centric episodes were always strong and made him into an interesting and sympathetic character, but the rest of the time he was just annoying. He could have been a much better character if they focused on his background more, on his shady past and on his pain over the death of his family, give him a bit more introspection and hinted that his OTT cheeriness was a defense mechanism. (And... would it be too much to ask for a less goofy haircut? )
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Old October 21 2009, 03:33 AM   #313
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

(And... would it be too much to ask for a less goofy haircut? )
Aside from Janeway and Kes, I don't think anyone significantly changed their hair throughout all of VOY. (resists obvious joke)
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Old October 21 2009, 03:57 AM   #314
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Sykonee wrote: View Post
(And... would it be too much to ask for a less goofy haircut? )
Aside from Janeway and Kes, I don't think anyone significantly changed their hair throughout all of VOY. (resists obvious joke)
Didn't Torres have some bad hair days in Season 6? Also seemed like Chakotay bleached the hair black as the series went on. I remember in Caretaker it was really gray.
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Old October 21 2009, 06:41 PM   #315
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I've been re-watching some early Voyager and Neelix was definitely more annoying than in the later seasons and a bit of a jerk as well (and not in a good way, I'm afraid). I liked him a bit more later on.
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