DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

[Bones]

If they were held back, this means they were already completely filmed, right? Did the logs give earlier stardates?

[Sykonee]

USS Bones wrote:

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If they were held back, this means they were already completely filmed, right? Did the logs give earlier stardates?

Apparently so. S3, as per Memory Alpha (bold dates note Stardates out of airdate chronological order):
Basics - 50032.7
Flashback - 50126.4
The Chute - 50156.2
The Swarm - 50252.3
False Profits - 50074.3
Remember - 50203.1
Sacred Ground - 50063.2
Future's End - 50132.5
Warlord - 50348.1
S3 carries on as usual from here.


Week 11: (Ending 12.03.94)
B5 - The Long Dark (Airdate 11.30.94)

Kind of an odd episode this, but does sort of sum up B5 as a series at this point. They're definitely going out of their way to build up the overall story arc (plenty of references to "Ancient Enemy" and "Gathering Darkness"), and managing to tinker with traditional sci-fi tropes in their own way (Surprise! The future isn't gonna be all Trek-like utopia, From-The-Past Woman). And of course, they seem more than willing to give their guest actors opportunities to play a different role from what some may have type-casted them as (Schultz as someone other than Barcley? Who knew!).

On the other hand, some of the show's pacing remains wonky (the final act jumps all over the place), and it sometimes overemphasizes the drama to near-farce levels. And somewhat annoyingly, it constantly shifts focus from all the subplots, so just as you're getting warmed up to one storyline, it's promptly dropped in favor of another one. C'mon, B5, we know you can weave everything effectively (Chrysalis) -you should be past these quibbles by now.

Overall, not a bad episode, but perhaps not the best one to be strutting your solo time with.

Weekly Winner
B5

Next:
B5 - Spider In The Web

[happydave]

Sykonee wrote:

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(Schultz as someone other than Barcley? Who knew!).

Anyone who watched The A-Team?


Ohh sorry, rhetorical question. I should learn not to answer those.

[Sykonee]

happydave wrote:

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Anyone who watched The A-Team?


Ohh sorry, rhetorical question. I should learn not to answer those.

All I ever remember from The A-Team is the theme song, trucks flipping, cigars, and Mr. T tossing someone over his head.

[Pemmer Harge]

The Long Dark: this episode's OK, but not one of the season's best instalments. I actually think that B5 was quite good at weaving different plot lines together by this point, although obviously it didn't always come off. Schultz's performance was maybe a bit much here, but I liked the stuff about Mr Garibaldi's war experiences and that "it'll take more than 100 years to breed a better human" line is probably one of my favourites from the show.

[Sykonee]

Pemmer Harge wrote:

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and that "it'll take more than 100 years to breed a better human" line is probably one of my favourites from the show.

As truthful as it is, I always took the line as yet another subtle dig at Trek's utopian outlook. Not that it's a bad thing -even DS9 was known to poke fun at Trek's outlook at this point- just an apparent thing. Funny how Franklin kept getting such lines/episodes...

Week 12: (Ending 12.10.94)
B5 - A Spider In The Web (Airdate 12.07.94)

Government Conspiracy Week!

Another one of those "This is ok, but..." episodes. B5's S2 sure has had a lot of them so far. Similar problems as the previous episode (the whole early business regarding the T'Kar is the very definition of dropped sub-plots), but at least it moves at a better pace. I s'pose your enjoyment of this episode will mostly boil down to whether you're interested in a Talia Winters-centric show.

That said, this is probably the best character development for Talia since the Ironheart incident, and really thanks to a single scene, when she decides not to reveal seeing a Psi-Cop in Horn's memory to Sheriden. Everyone may be getting comfortable with her and her with them, but it shows she's still not one to be completely trusted.

This is a decent enough episode -develops a character further, provides an interesting dilemma, seems to build on the show's overall arcs -and only suffers in hindsight; despite the episode seemingly moving more plot pieces into place for future use, nothing from here will lead to anything of consequence. Of course, how were we to know this in December of 1994?

Weekly Winner
B5

Next:
B5 - Soul Mates

[Sykonee]

Bleh, feelin' the flu, so decided to do a bit of marathon viewing up to VOY's premiere.

Week 13: (Ending 12.17.94)
B5 - Soul Mates (Airdate 12.14.94)

Amusing, light-hearted episode. Kind of reminded me of S1, with Londo more jovial and G'Kar less somber. Szarabajka was wonderful as an utter creep.

And, um, not much else to say really. A bit of surprise there's little reference to overall story arcs (unless you count Delenn's hair problems as a part of her Transformation Arc), but it's nice to take a step back from all the doom'n'gloom as we head into the holiday season, no?

That ends B5's solo time, a rather tepid run to be honest. Come January, things start to heat up again as DS9 returns, VOY premiers, and B5 figures to give the Trek franchise a real run for its money during February Sweeps...

Weekly Winner
B5

Next:
DS9 - Past Tense, Part 1

[Sykonee]

Week 14: (Ending 01.02.95)
DS9 - Past Tense, Part 1 (Airdate 01.02.95)

I have to wonder if Behr and Wolfe had any idea just how pertinent the idea of Sanctuary Districts would continue to be. They certainly seemed quite surprised at how much it was even way back when they did this episode, but despite a couple of boom periods since, you still get the impression that we aren't that far removed from this Near-Future Possibility.

That has to be one of the best things about Past Tense: just how contemporary it is. At times, I forget I'm even watching Trek, but rather some kind of modern-day street drama. The lighting and colors of the past certainly help sell the setting, as everything's such a muted, distilled gray'n'beige, not unlike many a dilapidated urban district.

Okay, technobabble still sucks -seems we're getting into that Trek period of needlessly excessive 'babble (ooh, and VOY is on the horizon). Stick to the past, and this is still a strong episode ...for a set-up anyway.

Weekly Winner
DS9

Next:
DS9 - Past Tense, Part 2

[Sykonee]

Hmm... I'm getting a bunch of conflicting dates for January. Some state Past Tense, Part 2 aired a week before Caretaker, some the day before, and some the same day. For now, I'm going with the week before -makes more sense to let a series premier have the solo spotlight. After all, Emissary got it.

Week 15: (Ending 01.09.95)
DS9 - Past Tense, Part 2 (Airdate 01.09.95)

For the longest time, I was having a hard time with Sisko as a proper lead in Trek. Not that I didn't buy into Brooks as a good leading man, but let's face it: Sisko really wasn't given too many opportunities to be, well, heroic. At least, not in the same sense that we'd seen Kirk or Picard (in their own ways). I wasn't sure if I'd ever be able to see Sisko in the same leagues as prior Trek heroes.

This was the episode that completely changed my mind.

Yes, there was the self-sacrificing nobility (and keep in mind Sisko had no idea that the future of the Federation was at stake when he took on the responsibility of Bell), but we'd seen some of that before. And certainly we've seen him able to talk out of a few tense situations. So what's the difference here?

One scene, where he confronts Vin one-on-one, and basically loses it over the outright apathy Vin displays over those in the District. To me, this was Brooks' best scene up to this point. It's just... raw, believable emotion. Sisko simply can't believe anyone could be as uncaring as Vin -he doesn't know whether to beat some sense into him, or to burst into tears. And it affects Vin in such a way that even Vin never thought possible: it makes him actually start to care.

It's such a small thing, yet it's a heroic moment right up there as any Kirk derring-do or Picard speechifying. At this point, in my mind, Sisko finally deserved be held in the same breath as the previous two titans of Trek lore (and lo, it was only going to get better from here).

Hm... just in time for us to have to start getting used to another Trek lead it seems. DS9 now sits back for a little to let VOY show us what she's all about.

Weekly Winner:
DS9

Next:
VOY - Caretaker

[Sykonee]

Sorry for the slight delay here, as I had to get a crash-course of the show Deepwater Black for a review of a tie-in album; thus, a mini-marathon of the series. You... do remember the show, right? Mission Genesis to the yanks? Geez, c'mon, Niners, you GOTTA know this show! (Here's the review, for anyone curious anyway. )

Also, in my continuing battle with conflicting dates, it now appears that, from here on, new DS9 episodes will be airing on Mondays rather than Sundays. This isn't a huge difference, but since I set my weeks to end on the Sundays, this does effectively shift DS9 into contention with different episodes than I had originally thought would. I wouldn't worry much over it though -best not to get wrapped up in such trivial details.

Oh, and here's an interesting factoid: this will mark the first time I've ever done a proper run-through of VOY. While I've caught chunks of episodes through syndication in the past, never have I sat down to actually watch 'em all in a row -there's even a few that I've yet to even see. I s'pose I could now possibly tie this thread into the VOY forum as well ("VOY Versus"?), but I somehow have the feeling it wouldn't bode well...

Week 16: (Ending 01.22.95)
VOY - Caretaker (Airdate 01.16.95)

Here's a funny memory. As my father and I were watching the VOY premiere, during the Kazon battle, my old man quipped, "Geez, they go across the galaxy, only to get into yet another space battle?" It did seem quite contrived that, of all the places in space they'd end up, our new crew would end up somewhere with space-faring aliens of comparable fighting technology. The odds, man!

That nitpick aside, Caretaker was still quite enjoyable, and a strong premiere. The characters are established well, they made the DQ seem quite different from what we were used to (making water a rare resource in the immediate region was rather clever, and something we tend to take for granted), and it hints at all sorts of wonderful possibilities for the series.

In its first dance in the spotlight, VOY makes a solid first impression. Unfortunately, its competition isn't letting it rest on its laurels, as B5 comes right back next week in an effort to serve up some Humble Pie to the rookie.

Weekly Winner:
VOY

Next:
B5 - A Race Through Dark Places
VOY - Parallax

[Sykonee]

Week 17: (Ending 01.29.95)
VOY - Parralax (Airdate 01.23.95)
B5 - A Race Through Dark Places (Airdate 01.25.95)

Way back in ye' olden days of the previous decade, there were some highly heated debates between fans of Trek and fans of B5. Of the many arguments engaged, one that often cropped up was regarding inter-crew relationships, specifically how well they'd get along. "B5 is so much more realistic," the Fivers would cry, "Not like Trek where everyone gets along all the time." Yet... that's not entirely accurate.

We've already seen in DS9 that everyone didn't like everyone right off the bat. Heck, the very second episode -Past Prologue- had Sisko threatening to have Kira's "head on a platter"! And now we have the same thing in VOY's second episode, Parralax. Okay, so Janeway doesn't make quite the same threat to Chakotay here, but they definitely butt heads, and in as realistic a manner as you'd expect from two disparate crews forced to work together in order to survive. In contrast, you hardly ever saw that in B5 -the Earth Force characters got along just fine for the most part (well, unless Franklin went and broke the rules again). So hey, you gotta give props to VOY for that.

Shame the sci-fi plot makes my head hurt as much as this poor guy's: Ugh... Even TNG never got this convoluted with the technobabble. As good as the character stuff is, stuffing your second episode with so much 'quantum singularity gobbledygook' isn't the best way to keep your new audience. Hope this doesn't become a trend. ()

B5 has Chekov aga

The Bester character really blossomed with this episode; if folks weren't sure about Koenig's range before, he definitely brought the acting goods here. I mean, that... stare. It's like he's almost dead inside. A Race... is merely okay, though. It's more a look at just how E-V-I-L PsiCorps is behind the scenes, which is interesting (and with some other strong guest bits too), but not exactly riveting. Still, the side-plots were amusing enough.

These are fairly evenly matched episodes. The nod, however, goes to B5. The character stuff may not have been quite as good as VOY's, but dammit, at least the dilemma made Sense. Things look to heat up even more now, as DS9 re-enters the fray. Geez, VOY's barely even had a chance to warm-up, and is already getting thrust into Triple-Threat competition.

Weekly Winner:
B5

Next:
DS9 - Life Support
B5 - The Coming Of Shadows
VOY - Time And Again

[tomalak301]

I think I know whose going to win the next one. Two not so great Trek episodes (Even though I actually do like Time And Again) against the episode that ended up winning a Hugo.

[DevilEyes]

I've been skipping your B5 reviews in this thread, since I have only seen "The Gathering" (OK) and "Midnight on the Firing Line" (really liked it) recently, and did not have the time to continue with the series.

But since I am going to have more time on my hands now, I am going to do something I've been planning, since you've inspired me with this thread: start a DS9 complete rewatch combined with a first-time viewing of the entire run of Babylon 5 - in chronological order based on airdates. I'll start my own thread about it, but there will be no Voyager (which I've been watching on TV - I am in season 3 now), TNG or anything else, and I won't be choosing weekly winners, just comparing the two. I may add little reminders of what were world news that week, to try to put myself back in the time when those episodes first aired (times that I remember well, but I first saw DS9 years later) and see if the plots of the shows reflect or can be seen as reflecting any of the real-world events of the time.

[Eyes]

tomalak301 wrote:

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I think I know whose going to win the next one. Two not so great Trek episodes (Even though I actually do like Time And Again) against the episode that ended up winning a Hugo.

Sounds like it could be B5 winning if it won a Hugo, but it could be quite close. Life Support is very moving, and sad at the end, and Time and Again was the episode that really started me liking Voyager.

[Sykonee]

DevilEyes wrote:

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I've been skipping your B5 reviews in this thread, since I have only seen "The Gathering" (OK) and "Midnight on the Firing Line" (really liked it) recently, and did not have the time to continue with the series.

But since I am going to have more time on my hands now, I am going to do something I've been planning, since you've inspired me with this thread: start a DS9 complete rewatch combined with a first-time viewing of the entire run of Babylon 5 - in chronological order based on airdates. I'll start my own thread about it, but there will be no Voyager (which I've been watching on TV - I am in season 3 now), TNG or anything else, and I won't be choosing weekly winners, just comparing the two. I may add little reminders of what were world news that week, to try to put myself back in the time when those episodes first aired (times that I remember well, but I first saw DS9 years later) and see if the plots of the shows reflect or can be seen as reflecting any of the real-world events of the time.

I guess it's true: imitation is the best form of flattery. You stand a good chance of lapping me on this if you just stick to DS9/B5, especially since I tend to only view one week on a given day that I can watch them. It makes finding time for the Triple-Viewings difficult.