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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old March 5 2011, 03:27 PM   #1
Mage
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Vulcan leaving the Federation?

I remember reading somewhere that the writers were planning on having Vulcan leave the UFP at the start of season 4, but that was ultimatly deemed to radical and instead they opted to have the Klingons step out of the Khitomer Accords.

Do I remember correctly here, or am I just really making things up here?
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Old March 5 2011, 03:39 PM   #2
Admiral Shran
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

I think you've gotten a few things confused. You might be thinking of a proposed animated Trek series set in the 25th century which was never greenlit. It dealt with Vulcan, and other UFP worlds, seceding from the Federation after several Omega molecules had been released, rendering interstellar travel next to impossible in vast areas.

You might also be thinking of the fall of Betazed in the the sixth season of DS9. The powers that be wanted the Dominion to conquer a planet that meant something to viewers, so as to give Sisko a justifiable reason for what he does in In The Pale Moonlight. Originally the powers that be thought about having Vulcan be the planet conquered by the Dominion. However, it was decided that Vulcan carried TOO much weight with the viewers, so it was changed to Betazed.

As far as I know, DS9 never considered having Vulcan leave the Federation.
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Old March 5 2011, 03:44 PM   #3
indolover
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

It's possible. But even still, I don't see how that would affect Sisko and co. directly. Sisko's basic remit for being at DS9 was to get Bajor into the Federation (and if anything the entire Dominion affair was a side issue to that).

What I heard was that the Klingon story took place since the writers remembered a line from a season three ep that a Changeling made. I think it was "The only threat to us now from the Alpha Quadrant are the Federation and the Klingon Empire, and these won't be threats for much longer." So the writers decided to end the Khitomer Accords and have the brief season 4/5 war to that end.
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Old March 5 2011, 03:46 PM   #4
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

No, you do remember correctly. "Homefront" was originally meant to be the season 3 finale and part of the story would be that the Federation would be brought to the verge of civil war by the Changeling infiltrators messing around on Earth and Vulcan would leave the Federation. The reason given why they didn't go that way is that TPTB didn't want a cliffhanger finale.
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Old March 5 2011, 06:20 PM   #5
toughlittleship
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

I remember reading about that. The Federation was to then suspect that the Vulcan leaders had been replaced by Changelings. It was an interesting idea, but the use of the Klingons in that context was one of the best things DS9 ever did.

Vulcan was also one of the planets that was considered to be invaded by the Dominion in "In the Pale Moonlight". It was decided against though, as Vulcan carried "too much weight". It would have been interesting to go that way though, and feature the liberation of Vulcan in a movie, instead of Picard and Co. rescuing the Aryan race in Insurrection.
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Old March 5 2011, 09:42 PM   #6
Jar Jar Binks
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

I don't get the "Vulcan carried too much weight" thing. Wouldn't that be a good reason for it to be invaded by the Dominion? How many people really cared about Betazed?
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Old March 5 2011, 10:48 PM   #7
Tulaberry whine
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

Skywalker wrote: View Post
I don't get the "Vulcan carried too much weight" thing. Wouldn't that be a good reason for it to be invaded by the Dominion? How many people really cared about Betazed?
I suspect you've answered your own question. The invasion of Betazed could happen off-screen and nobody would really care nor would it distract too much from the comings and goings of the space station.

If a planet like Vulcan (or Earth for that matter) fell, viewers would expect Sisko and co to lead the charge to save them.
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Old March 5 2011, 10:58 PM   #8
Yuckleberry Finn
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

Skywalker wrote: View Post
I don't get the "Vulcan carried too much weight" thing. Wouldn't that be a good reason for it to be invaded by the Dominion? How many people really cared about Betazed?
That's in IRL, of course!, Seeing that Spock is an trek icon that is known to those who know little else about trek, Vulcan is the most beloved world to trekkies.

Of course, there are people in-universe who would be really upset. I can see Troi being so upset she forgot to eat chocolate on the E-E for a week.
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Old March 5 2011, 11:26 PM   #9
Jar Jar Binks
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

Tulaberry whine wrote: View Post
Skywalker wrote: View Post
I don't get the "Vulcan carried too much weight" thing. Wouldn't that be a good reason for it to be invaded by the Dominion? How many people really cared about Betazed?
I suspect you've answered your own question. The invasion of Betazed could happen off-screen and nobody would really care nor would it distract too much from the comings and goings of the space station.
But shouldn't you want the viewers to care?

Admiral Ross: "Betazed has been overrun."
Average Viewer: "Meh."

Admiral Ross: "Vulcan has been overrun."
Average Viewer: "Oh snap! These Dominion folks mean business!
Tulaberry whine wrote: View Post
If a planet like Vulcan (or Earth for that matter) fell, viewers would expect Sisko and co to lead the charge to save them.
If Earth fell, yeah, viewers would have definitely expected Sisko and co. to lead the charge to retake it, but I don't think they would have felt the same way about Vulcan. Sure, they would probably have liked to see a "liberation of Vulcan" storyline, but even if the whole thing got resolved off-screen, it still would have resonated with the viewers more than Betazed.
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Old March 6 2011, 12:08 AM   #10
Therin of Andor
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

toughlittleship wrote: View Post
I remember reading about that. The Federation was to then suspect that the Vulcan leaders had been replaced by Changelings. It was an interesting idea, but the use of the Klingons in that context was one of the best things DS9 ever did.
It also made sense, with Michael Dorn and Worf joining the series, to have a major Klingon storyline.
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Old March 6 2011, 12:20 AM   #11
arch101
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

[QUOTE It would have been interesting to go that way though, and feature the liberation of Vulcan in a movie, instead of Picard and Co. rescuing the Aryan race in Insurrection.[/QUOTE]

But then we wouldn't have gotten the boob joke. Or the Klingon zit joke. Or the joystick. Or....
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Old March 6 2011, 12:30 AM   #12
Yuckleberry Finn
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

^Mmm, only the boob joke seem to have survived. I don't recall any references to the Klingon zit or the joystick (at least that specific joystick) in any of the caption it contests. The boob joke is a whole different story. Why, there was one in last week's TNG caption it picture contest.
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Old March 6 2011, 12:49 AM   #13
DS9forever
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

Betazed was definitely the right choice. It obvious wasn't going to be Earth or Kronos. As people have said, Vulcan being conquered would have required a story about it. The Tellarites and the Andorians were nearly nonexistent in the 24th century series so their respective homeworlds are out as well.
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Old March 6 2011, 02:57 AM   #14
Tulaberry whine
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

Skywalker wrote: View Post
Tulaberry whine wrote: View Post
Skywalker wrote: View Post
I don't get the "Vulcan carried too much weight" thing. Wouldn't that be a good reason for it to be invaded by the Dominion? How many people really cared about Betazed?
I suspect you've answered your own question. The invasion of Betazed could happen off-screen and nobody would really care nor would it distract too much from the comings and goings of the space station.
But shouldn't you want the viewers to care?
Of course - just not too much that the attention of viewers is taken off the story.

Enough of the right people cared for a book to be written about the liberation of Betazed -and it wasn't even a DS9 book IIRC - so I think the writers made the right call.
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Old March 7 2011, 08:54 AM   #15
Myasishchev
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Re: Vulcan leaving the Federation?

DS9forever wrote: View Post
Betazed was definitely the right choice. It obvious wasn't going to be Earth or Kronos. As people have said, Vulcan being conquered would have required a story about it.
Why? I don't remember the scene in Enemy At the Gates where where Vasiliy Zaytsev flew to Guadalcanal, or the scene in Paths of Glory where Colonel Dax rallies the Russians at Kostyukhnivka. The average viewer would've understood that wars are big.

Anyway, any major Fed planet had the same real problem: why and how did the Dominion conquer a planet deep in the Federation backfield, instead of a planet on the front lines like, you know... Bajor? But a Vulcan occupation would've been pretty cool. An Earth occupation would've been even cooler. Indeed, I'd love for someone to answer the question why the Breen didn't obliterate Earth from orbit, when they clearly could have.

A Vulcan secession prior to the war would've been neat too. Although I can see why they nixed that in favor of a Fed-Klingon war.
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