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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 13 2009, 04:49 AM   #811
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

urbandk wrote: View Post
I've suspended my disbelief for much more egregious transgressions of logic in TOS and elsewhere, I'm not going to stop giving Star Trek the benefit of the doubt now, especially when they have a kick ass new movie out.
Well, that's the key. The audience will forgive a movie's failings if they want to, and they will want to if they are being entertained. This is the only reason that Trek fans go so easy on the Franchise's frequent lapses in common sense and logic, and have since the very beginning.

When fannish good will is absent, as it was with some of the later Trek movies and TV series, the creators get crucified for doing the exact same things that were not a source of complaint at an earlier time. And then fans pretend that they didn't know better or didn't notice - "yeah, but that was a long time ago. Just because they didn't get it right then is no excuse for being lazy now" - when what they mean is "I don't like this show and I'm not cutting them the slack I do when I'm enjoying myself."
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Old April 13 2009, 04:49 AM   #812
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Beyond that he's well-educated on a range of subjects.
How well educated could he be if he's hanging out at Iowa bars getting drunk on wood grain alcohol?

Maybe it'll make sense in the context of the movie. Here's hoping...

I need to introduce you to a few grad students I know.
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Old April 13 2009, 04:53 AM   #813
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

BillJ wrote: View Post
urbandk wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

Which heads back to the whole Jim Kirk is the new Wesley Crusher. All of these experienced commanders can't come up with a plan of action yet third year cadet Jim Kirk can? Guess the guy who plays Robau was wrong about other officers not being made to look stupid to make Kirk look good.
The only guy who looks stupid to make Kirk look good is Spock, but he's got problems of his own at that moment and redeems himself. the failure of the other commanders to assess the situation is not egregious; it was simply an inspired connection of events that allowed Kirk to see the incident at Vulcan for what it was.

If this issue is going to be a major hang up for you, you will indeed be disappointed by this part of the movie. I'm not, but I probably just see this movie through rose-colored glasses since I like it so much.
I hope I'm as impressed as you are. Took a whole week of vacation around this film. Jim Kirk is my favorite character and I don't want his ascension to feel cheap.
Yeah, I hear you. He has his strengths and weaknesses in the movie; he seems like a punk at first. Even late in the academy, I was just kinda shaking my head at how dumb he was acting. You'll recall from "Shore Leave" that Kirk reminisces about how serious and studious he was at the academy. He might be studious but he ain't serious here. In his trial by fire, he makes a couple excellent judgments; he keeps old Spock's secret and baits young Spock in what actually was a deliberate, cool-headed act, despite appearances to the contrary in the trailers and previews. At the end of the film, he seems to bear the responsibility of command. Yeah, it all happens really fast, but I guess the filmmakers had to go from angry, impudent Kirk to leadership quality Kirk rather fast. I suppose the crucible he has to undergo might explain it, or just the exigencies of storytelling. I hope you aren't disappointed.
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Old April 13 2009, 04:56 AM   #814
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

urbandk wrote: View Post
I hope you aren't disappointed.

Saw Nemesis twice in the theatre. This couldn't possibly be worse.
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Old April 13 2009, 05:01 AM   #815
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
One thing that Orci made clear long ago is that he gets that Kirk is an extremely intelligent man - a generalist who can keep up with Spock's (presumed to be) scientifically sophisticated analyses and reason out or intuit fairly abstract solutions to problems. Beyond that he's well-educated on a range of subjects. That separates him from characters like Han Solo, or James Bond - they may be reasonably bright as well in many regards, but their characterizations don't properly depend upon anything beyond skill in their areas of experience and essential cleverness (or "occasional cleverness and frequent gunfire" on Solo's part).
Which is exactly how Kirk was portrayed in TOS on more than one occasion and I'm glad that Orci recognized that. In fact, we get shown this in the bar scene where Kirk knows about Xenolinguistics.

Speaking of which...

BillJ wrote: View Post

How well educated could he be if he's hanging out at Iowa bars getting drunk on wood grain alcohol?

Maybe it'll make sense in the context of the movie. Here's hoping...
Many a well-educated man (or woman) has ended up in a bar getting drunk.

From what's been revealed about Kirk in this film so far, there is context for why he is hanging out in Iowa bars and putting a few back.
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Old April 13 2009, 05:44 AM   #816
adg
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

BillJ wrote: View Post
urbandk wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

Which heads back to the whole Jim Kirk is the new Wesley Crusher. All of these experienced commanders can't come up with a plan of action yet third year cadet Jim Kirk can? Guess the guy who plays Robau was wrong about other officers not being made to look stupid to make Kirk look good.
The only guy who looks stupid to make Kirk look good is Spock, but he's got problems of his own at that moment and redeems himself. the failure of the other commanders to assess the situation is not egregious; it was simply an inspired connection of events that allowed Kirk to see the incident at Vulcan for what it was.

If this issue is going to be a major hang up for you, you will indeed be disappointed by this part of the movie. I'm not, but I probably just see this movie through rose-colored glasses since I like it so much.
I hope I'm as impressed as you are. Took a whole week of vacation around this film. Jim Kirk is my favorite character and I don't want his ascension to feel cheap.
Believe me, I understand your concern. Jim Kirk is a special character. I also want him to not be cheapened. I am willing to give this movie more than the benefit of the doubt, though. So I am willing to see for myself.

Just one more month!!
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Old April 13 2009, 06:10 AM   #817
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Saw Nemesis twice in the theatre. This couldn't possibly be worse.
Personally I saw INS as worse, because it not only had the same idiot factor, but because it was boring as all hell too.
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Old April 13 2009, 06:14 AM   #818
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Captain X wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Saw Nemesis twice in the theatre. This couldn't possibly be worse.
Personally I saw INS as worse, because it not only had the same idiot factor, but because it was boring as all hell too.
But Donna Murphy (Anij) is smoking hot. Advantage: Insurrection
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Old April 13 2009, 06:15 AM   #819
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

She was also horrible at acting.
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Old April 13 2009, 06:17 AM   #820
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Captain X wrote: View Post
She was also horrible at acting.
I'm pretty shallow. Watch Headline News for two hours every morning just because of Robin Meade. And I couldn't even tell you what the headlines were when I turn it off.
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Old April 13 2009, 06:21 AM   #821
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

On the other hand she looked just like Patrick Stewart! So it was kind of like Picard was fucking himself in that movie! I think Stuart Baird really missed the boat when he didn't cast Murphy as Shinzon in Nemesis. She is Picard's clone!
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Old April 13 2009, 06:25 AM   #822
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Admiral James Kirk wrote: View Post
On the other hand she looked just like Patrick Stewart! So it was kind of like Picard was fucking himself in that movie! I think Stuart Baird really missed the boat when he didn't cast Murphy as Shinzon in Nemesis. She is Picard's clone!


Nearly spit Coke onto my keyboard.
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Old April 13 2009, 06:28 AM   #823
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Captain X wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Saw Nemesis twice in the theatre. This couldn't possibly be worse.
Personally I saw INS as worse, because it not only had the same idiot factor, but because it was boring as all hell too.
But Donna Murphy (Anij) is smoking hot. Advantage: Insurrection
Captain X wrote: View Post
She was also horrible at acting.
She's been on all three L&O series in various guest roles, and her acting was much better there.
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Old April 13 2009, 06:31 AM   #824
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Captain X wrote: View Post

Personally I saw INS as worse, because it not only had the same idiot factor, but because it was boring as all hell too.
But Donna Murphy (Anij) is smoking hot. Advantage: Insurrection
Captain X wrote: View Post
She was also horrible at acting.
She's been on all three L&O series in various guest roles, and her acting was much better there.

Which is the curse of Modern Trek, underwhelming performances by the guest stars.
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Old April 13 2009, 06:49 AM   #825
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

With a script like that I can't really blame her for not being that into it.
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