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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 5 2009, 05:41 PM   #1591
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

middyseafort wrote: View Post
I have to admit to actually enjoying both films, but I know that they are full of faults, particularly the egos of those in charge. TMP, Roddenberry. TUC, Meyer. Both pretentious in their own not-so-subtle way.
I enjoy ST:TMP a lot, TUC not so much (okay, not at all). The former is very pretty to look at and has some other compensations for its deep flaws; the latter has none.
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Old May 5 2009, 05:42 PM   #1592
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Dennis wrote: View Post
El Chupacabra wrote: View Post
TMP -

A total exploration of the human condition, questioning what it is to be human and what it is to exist.
Try "a really superficial repeating back-and-forth of drivel so pretentious that maharishi mahesh yogi would have been embarrassed to traffick in it." College sophomore let's-get-stoned-and-profound stuff.

And TUC never rises above the level of humorless parody (a genre that Star Trek may have all to itself). "We need a 'Chernobyl' so we'll blow up a moon! He's supposed to be Gorbachev so we'll call him 'Gorkon!'" Give me a fucking break.

TMP was gorgeous on the big screen, but it was a complete rehash of The Changeling with a lot of "we paid a shitton of money for these effects so we're going to show them intercut with the cast gaping at the screen" shots.

TUC was a very predictably familiar whodunnit. The way they found out whodunnit was lifted almost word for word from an episode of M*A*S*H with a Scooby Doo reveal. I do wish they kept the canon of Klingon Blood looking like Strawberry Quick. Nick Meyer for all his apparent flaws stated on this board, really played up the Hornblower in Space element that Star Trek sorely needed on the big screen. It was an enjoyable last romp for the original stars and refreshing after the dud (albeit still guilty pleasure) that was V.

Big screen Trek was never as heavy handed about the "morality plays" as the television series was. None of the movies focused as much on that as they did on the spectacle. I don't expect that from this new film.

Last edited by ChocolateBabyJesus; May 5 2009 at 05:53 PM.
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Old May 5 2009, 06:12 PM   #1593
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Unpinning this one now. Discussion to be continued in the "The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]," which will be opened soon.
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Old May 5 2009, 06:16 PM   #1594
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

erastus25 wrote: View Post
thumbtack wrote: View Post
You'd have to search long and wide to find anything "thoughtful" in the TNG movies. All four of which tried much, much harder than this movie does to become mainstream hits. The TOS movies have a little more substance to them, but nothing more profound than "save the whales" or "make peace with the Soviets". T.V. is really the only place that Trek ever attempted to be "deep".
I think you're selling "make peace with the Soviets" short. That was a compelling allegory examining the difficulties in abandoning decades of prejudice and hate. I think JJ could have done something, using a simple message, with this movie. Maybe a terrorism allegory? I don't know, I'm thinking out loud.
He has and I will enjoy debating that after the movie has been released to the general public.
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Old May 5 2009, 06:21 PM   #1595
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

erastus25 wrote: View Post
I think you're selling "make peace with the Soviets" short. That was a compelling allegory examining the difficulties in abandoning decades of prejudice and hate.
No it wasn't; aside from trivializing any real issues involved, it was a day late and a dollar short.

I mean, did some trek fans not read the papers or not think about what was going on in the world unless it was pre-chewed for them in a Star Trek movie? What could this movie possibly have contributed, otherwise, to one's understanding of or thinking about the collapse of the Soviet Union and associated events?

Stupid murder mystery, was all it was.
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Old May 5 2009, 06:24 PM   #1596
indranee
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

well, at least TMP had a sublime first half. one I enjoy watching many times over. the second half? not so much.
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Old May 5 2009, 06:34 PM   #1597
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
What's the sci fi story? Do you mean just the time travel plot device, or is there anything beyond that? From what I've read here, the story is a straightforward revenge plot which is, to a large extent, successful.
An alien villain from the future goes through a time warp black hole in his giant squid spaceship. The giant alien spaceship has an outerspace battle with a spaceship from an interstellar civilization.

Then the alien villian shoots an energy beam to the core of an alien planet and deposits a science fictional substance which creates a black hole singularity.

The interstellar civilization sends their own technologically advanced spaceship out to stop him. They use warp speed, energy weapons, transporters, and another friendly alien from the future to aid themselves in stopping him by consuming his ship in a black hole.

Sounds like a scifi movie to me. I don't think I've seen that plot on Law & Order.
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Last edited by The Super Brando; May 5 2009 at 06:45 PM.
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Old May 5 2009, 07:00 PM   #1598
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

LOL @ myself. For all of you who endured my whining about blowing up Vulcan and whatnot, and my statement that might not see the movie, I have to tell on myself. I went out at lunch today and got tickets for the Thurs night 7:00 PM showing.

I just couldn't stand it. I know overall I'm gonna like it, I just hope I can get past this whole Vulcan thing.
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Old May 5 2009, 07:11 PM   #1599
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

The Super Brando wrote: View Post
Sounds like a scifi movie to me. I don't think I've seen that plot on Law & Order.
CSI, on the other hand...

There's at least as much science fictional content in this one as there is in the aforementioned ST:TMP; honestly, despite Roddenberry's allegedly brandishing an Asimov article on the subject of "living machines" at a recalcitrant studio exec, TMP never gives a moment's consideration to what that term might mean or imply - it's just a grand-sounding label to make V'Ger sound like something more special than the enormous plot convenience that it is.
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Old May 5 2009, 07:24 PM   #1600
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Well, they could've done this to make it topical, but I don't know how it would've improved the movie:
Nero could've thought he could get a weakened Federation to declare war on the Romulan Empire. A war he believed the Romulans would eventually win. But what happens instead is his great act of terror is revolting to the Romulans, who revile the act and respond by offering aid to their surviving Vulcan cousins (with Spock Prime becoming the diplomatic go-between). Ultimately, Nero's act served no purpose other than to forever link his name with genocide and actually draw the Romulans and Vulcans closer. Maybe too heavy for a summer movie.

But, as it is, the movie does have a theme: it's about fate and fulfilling a destiny. After all, as Spock Prime once said to his Kirk, "Commanding a starship is your first best destiny. Anything else is a waste of material."
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Old May 5 2009, 07:36 PM   #1601
indranee
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

gh4chiefs wrote: View Post
LOL @ myself. For all of you who endured my whining about blowing up Vulcan and whatnot, and my statement that might not see the movie, I have to tell on myself. I went out at lunch today and got tickets for the Thurs night 7:00 PM showing.

I just couldn't stand it. I know overall I'm gonna like it, I just hope I can get past this whole Vulcan thing.
welcome to the dark side and opening night too!

it'll be hard. I'm still feeling sad about it (and Amanda). but the best thing about it is Spock's reaction to it and the overall emo impact.

ya can't go wrong with using tragedy well in drama (or sci fi).
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Old May 5 2009, 07:44 PM   #1602
gh4chiefs
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

indranee wrote: View Post
gh4chiefs wrote: View Post
LOL @ myself. For all of you who endured my whining about blowing up Vulcan and whatnot, and my statement that might not see the movie, I have to tell on myself. I went out at lunch today and got tickets for the Thurs night 7:00 PM showing.

I just couldn't stand it. I know overall I'm gonna like it, I just hope I can get past this whole Vulcan thing.


welcome to the dark side and opening night too!
Yeah I have a tradition of seeing most of the movies on opening night. Not all of them, but most of them. So it seemed the right thing to do.

ya can't go wrong with using tragedy well in drama (or sci fi).
This is true, but to me losing Vulcan is like losing Kirk or Spock. It's a main character to me that belongs in the Trek universe, even if this is an alternate reality. Oh hell here I go again, beating a dead horse. Sorry folks. I'll quit whining one of these days I guess.

I'm sincerely looking forward to it even with my reservations.
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Old May 5 2009, 07:46 PM   #1603
indranee
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

thank you. it'll be worth the ride (and the tears), I promise.
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Old May 5 2009, 11:46 PM   #1604
RJDementia13
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

The Super Brando wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
What's the sci fi story? Do you mean just the time travel plot device, or is there anything beyond that? From what I've read here, the story is a straightforward revenge plot which is, to a large extent, successful.
An alien villain from the future goes through a time warp black hole in his giant squid spaceship. The giant alien spaceship has an outerspace battle with a spaceship from an interstellar civilization.

Then the alien villian shoots an energy beam to the core of an alien planet and deposits a science fictional substance which creates a black hole singularity.

The interstellar civilization sends their own technologically advanced spaceship out to stop him. They use warp speed, energy weapons, transporters, and another friendly alien from the future to aid themselves in stopping him by consuming his ship in a black hole.

Sounds like a scifi movie to me. I don't think I've seen that plot on Law & Order.
Okay, that's what I thought.
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Old May 6 2009, 12:34 AM   #1605
darkwing_duck1
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
The Super Brando wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
What's the sci fi story? Do you mean just the time travel plot device, or is there anything beyond that? From what I've read here, the story is a straightforward revenge plot which is, to a large extent, successful.
An alien villain from the future goes through a time warp black hole in his giant squid spaceship. The giant alien spaceship has an outerspace battle with a spaceship from an interstellar civilization.

Then the alien villian shoots an energy beam to the core of an alien planet and deposits a science fictional substance which creates a black hole singularity.

The interstellar civilization sends their own technologically advanced spaceship out to stop him. They use warp speed, energy weapons, transporters, and another friendly alien from the future to aid themselves in stopping him by consuming his ship in a black hole.

Sounds like a scifi movie to me. I don't think I've seen that plot on Law & Order.
Okay, that's what I thought.
The only thing that makes it "sci fi" is the alien and the time travel, and that is marginal. The plot is a basic military/revenge plot:

An renegade military naval leader steals a warship. The warship has an surface battle with a warship from an international alliance.

Then the renegate naval leader shoots a nuclear missile at a city and destroys it.

The international alliance sends their own warship out to stop him. They use superior speed, conventional weapons, planes, and the help of one of his former officers to aid themselves in stopping him by making him target himself with another nuclear missile.
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