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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 5 2009, 01:10 AM   #1576
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
And the labeling of non-sf fans "mundanes" has always been a red flag of a pretty unthoughtful point-of-view.
Perhaps not flattering, but far from unthoughtful, and, again, very obviously true.
True, wrong, and no.

The Onion's got your number on the "mundane" thing.
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Old May 5 2009, 01:51 AM   #1577
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Dennis wrote: View Post

The Onion's got your number on the "mundane" thing.

That's fucking hysterical.

Someone at the Onion has visited the Trekbbs.
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Old May 5 2009, 02:04 AM   #1578
seekertwo
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Jessop wrote: View Post
Nero killed billions of Vulcans and was about to kill Billions of humans... I can't quite see the people who just stopped him having a change of heart and reaching out to save him after that. I think their dealing with him was fully justified.

I would agree....if you'd just killed my best friend's family and you were now trying to kill mine....to heck with salvation, I'd blast you, too...

And....as for the revenge plotline....I'm eagerly awaiting the "Khan vs. Nero" threads....
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Old May 5 2009, 02:37 AM   #1579
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Kelso wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post

The Onion's got your number on the "mundane" thing.

That's fucking hysterical.

Someone at the Onion has visited the Trekbbs.
Yep, and stole our front page!

The piece clearly was written by pretty hardcore fans - the words they put into the mouth of the "Klingon" woman and some of the other fans were too closely observed.
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Old May 5 2009, 02:48 AM   #1580
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
The Super Brando wrote: View Post
I'm not a film critic, so I can't articulate the strengths of the movie as well as I would like. But the character arcs (mainly Kirk and Spock) are done at a quality level far beyond the summer popcorn flick, and the plot is a solid scifi story without cheesiness or any holes that I noticed.
What's the sci fi story? Do you mean just the time travel plot device, or is there anything beyond that? From what I've read here, the story is a straightforward revenge plot which is, to a large extent, successful.
Khan could be dumbed down to a "straightforward revenge plot" just as much as this one yet it is considered one of the best sci-fi movies of all time.
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Old May 5 2009, 02:50 AM   #1581
indranee
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Kelso wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post

The Onion's got your number on the "mundane" thing.

That's fucking hysterical.

Someone at the Onion has visited the Trekbbs.
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Old May 5 2009, 02:55 AM   #1582
indranee
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

basically, the main problem comes down to "why are we not seeing the conception of the original crew of the original show (TOS) who go about creating the original canon"?

I sympathize with this pov and this complaint, guys, but only up to a point. I've seen the movie, and I loved it. I'm an "original" fan. and I loved it.

I'm prepared for all that may come... all that which I do not know of. To me, Star Trek -- aside from its exploration of the human condition -- is about exploring "strange new worlds".

I'm ready for the new world.

bring it on.
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Old May 5 2009, 09:53 AM   #1583
RJDiogenes
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

TGTheodore wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Speaking for myself, for this movie, it would have been nice to see the first mission of the classic crew together; the initial formation and bonding of the Kirk-Spock-McCoy triumverate.
And that's what this film leads up to. The next film will be just that.
Except that it can't be, since these are different characters in a different context; whatever character development and relationships they may portray, it won't be the history of the characters we know.

You and I have VERY similar tastes in our Trek, and I think you'll be as pleasantly surprised as I was. I went in with virtually NO spoilers as I was VERY careful to go in "clean". And I'm really glad I did.
I agree to an extent. It looks like they got enough of it right to make me really disappointed that they didn't apply all that effort to the original Trek characters.
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Old May 5 2009, 09:57 AM   #1584
RJDiogenes
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Dennis wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
And the labeling of non-sf fans "mundanes" has always been a red flag of a pretty unthoughtful point-of-view.
Perhaps not flattering, but far from unthoughtful, and, again, very obviously true.
True, wrong, and no.
I would never want to spoil your giggling and posturing, Dennis, but feel free to use complete sentences, and possibly even paragraphs, if you have any actual thoughts to share.

The Onion's got your number on the "mundane" thing.
They sure do. They understand that the anticipated success of this movie rests on all the Trek being mainstreamed out of it. You did get the joke, right?
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Old May 5 2009, 11:38 AM   #1585
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Dennis wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
And the labeling of non-sf fans "mundanes" has always been a red flag of a pretty unthoughtful point-of-view.
Perhaps not flattering, but far from unthoughtful, and, again, very obviously true.
True, wrong, and no.

The Onion's got your number on the "mundane" thing.
That was brilliant - they've obviously trawled both this place and TrekMovie.com to get a feel for all of the "IT'S NOT CANON!!!!!!1" arguments between fans. The "endless debates of interstellar diplomacy" part especially made me laugh.

The letter at the end was good too - looking at the part that wasn't highlighted, I could see something like "as the film ages over the years, the special effects become more dated and the plot holes to nitpick become clearer, we are sure it will take its rightful place in the canon." in there.

Mind you, things like this have come to mainstream awareness more often since the entire "Greedo shot first" debacle...
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Old May 5 2009, 01:01 PM   #1586
EJA
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Is there any indication of Winona Kirk's position on the Kelvin at the time of James' birth? Is she actually enlisted in Starfleet? And where is George Kirk Jr. during these events, shouldn't he be with his parents?
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Old May 5 2009, 01:44 PM   #1587
El Chupacabra
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

thumbtack wrote: View Post
You'd have to search long and wide to find anything "thoughtful" in the TNG movies. All four of which tried much, much harder than this movie does to become mainstream hits. The TOS movies have a little more substance to them, but nothing more profound than "save the whales" or "make peace with the Soviets". T.V. is really the only place that Trek ever attempted to be "deep".
I'd disagree with that quite a bit:-

TMP -

A total exploration of the human condition, questioning what it is to be human and what it is to exist.

TWOK -

An exploration of age, regrets in life and the conflict of reason and logic vs emotion (not in Spock, but rather in Khan).

TSFS -

An exploration of the principle of putting your friends and family before your own personal interests.

TVH - Ok, perhaps a more obvious morality play on the question of the enviroment. To me its actually the weakest of the TOS movies in terms of a "Star Trek" message.

TFF - Some excellent exploration of what it takes to be a human being.

TUC - Well, the message is, as you point out, the soviet block analogy.

I agree that the TNG movies did let the side down and the morality play was put aside. Yet there are still some attempt to address the spirit of Star Trek stories of old, from the optimism of adventuring into space for the first time in FC, to the exploration of the extent to which life experiences influence who we are as people in Nemesis.
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Old May 5 2009, 01:46 PM   #1588
El Chupacabra
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

EJA wrote: View Post
Is there any indication of Winona Kirk's position on the Kelvin at the time of James' birth? Is she actually enlisted in Starfleet? And where is George Kirk Jr. during these events, shouldn't he be with his parents?
Well, lets hope that she wasn't just a family member 'cause families were only on starships in Picard's era, right? Canon breach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old May 5 2009, 03:49 PM   #1589
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

El Chupacabra wrote: View Post
TMP -

A total exploration of the human condition, questioning what it is to be human and what it is to exist.
Try "a really superficial repeating back-and-forth of drivel so pretentious that maharishi mahesh yogi would have been embarrassed to traffick in it." College sophomore let's-get-stoned-and-profound stuff.

And TUC never rises above the level of humorless parody (a genre that Star Trek may have all to itself). "We need a 'Chernobyl' so we'll blow up a moon! He's supposed to be Gorbachev so we'll call him 'Gorkon!'" Give me a fucking break.
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Old May 5 2009, 04:33 PM   #1590
Ryan Thomas Riddle
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Re: World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

Dennis wrote: View Post
El Chupacabra wrote: View Post
TMP -

A total exploration of the human condition, questioning what it is to be human and what it is to exist.
Try "a really superficial repeating back-and-forth of drivel so pretentious that maharishi mahesh yogi would have been embarrassed to traffick in it." College sophomore let's-get-stoned-and-profound stuff.

And TUC never rises above the level of humorless parody (a genre that Star Trek may have all to itself). "We need a 'Chernobyl' so we'll blow up a moon! He's supposed to be Gorbachev so we'll call him 'Gorkon!'" Give me a fucking break.

I have to admit to actually enjoying both films, but I know that they are full of faults, particularly the egos of those in charge. TMP, Roddenberry. TUC, Meyer. Both pretentious in their own not-so-subtle way.
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