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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old April 5 2009, 03:48 AM   #61
Andy Mangels
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Well, little cutie Sean does like him some big hairy fellas, so it's not out of the realms of possibility...
If someone wants to imagine Neal McDonough (First Contact era) snogging Hugh Jackman (any era), who am I to stop them?

heck, in Ravenous, he even does a "naked in the river, scream to the skies" Wolverine yell. Maybe he learned it somewhere...
I love the movie Ravenous, but I've not seen it in about 8 years I think. I have no memory of Neal being in the movie. Now might be a good time to revisit it. I used to work in a video store and I'd recommend that movie all the time. I remember catching it on cable when it was new to the outlet, and being freaked out in one scene and then laughing a lot in the next. It's a very interstingly put together movie.
Google is your friend!
Presented for educational purposes, Neal's Wolverine scene in Ravenous...

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Old April 5 2009, 04:24 AM   #62
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

^Oh my. That's got to be bracing. Thanks for sharing.
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Old April 5 2009, 06:16 AM   #63
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

^^^ Does make you wonder what might be going on under the water level...
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Old April 5 2009, 06:32 AM   #64
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

"Oh, balls--ICE PIRAHNA!"

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
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Old April 5 2009, 06:48 AM   #65
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
^Oh my. That's got to be bracing. Thanks for sharing.
Unless it's movie snow from the Genesis Planet.
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Old May 3 2009, 03:16 AM   #66
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

Another huge round of thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread and also to those that have sent me private messages contributing your Trek knowledge, your advice and your kind words. All of this has been extremely positive and I'm grateful for every single one of you.

I just wanted to update this thread as it got slightly off topic at the end. This way if someone new finds it and jumps to the end they'll see what's going on...and I wanted to update the info we have and think we have. lol.

I also wanted to let everyone know that instead of this being an extension of my personal webpage I've decided to set up a website completely separate: http://www.lgbtstartrek.com I have the domain name, but I still have to organize all the content. I have lots of ideas, and there are some people helping me, so hopefully this site will grow to cover all the LGBT inclusive or related Trek in all it's forms. Thanks for all your help here.

Forgive me if this isn't as oganized as it should be; I'm doing 20 things at once. lol.

Ok. Here's what I have for LGBT characters and references in Trek Lit:

Albert "Bert" Tucker & his husband Miguel from
"The Good That Men Do" by Andy Mangels & Michael A. Martin

Krell & his husband Kon’Jef from
"Kobayashi Maru" by Andy Mangels & Michael A. Martin

Thanks for the help Chemahkuu & Andy!

Anna Sandesjo / Lurqal from
"Vanguard: Harbinger" by David Mack
"Vanguard: Summon the Thunder" by Dayton Ward & Kevin Dilmore
"Vanguard: Reap the Whirlwind" by David Mack

Thanks JD!

T'Prynn from
"Vanguard: Harbinger" by David Mack
"Vanguard: Summon the Thunder" by Dayton Ward & Kevin Dilmore
"Vanguard: Reap the Whirlwind" by David Mack
"Vanguard: Open Secrets" by Dayton Ward
"The Lost Era: The Art Of the Impossible" by Keith R.A. DeCandido
"Mission Gamma: Lesser Evil" by Robert Simpson

Thanks for the confirmation on the Mission Gamma book KRAD!

Mirror T'Prynn & Mirror T'Meri from
"MU: Glass Empires: The Sorrows of Empire" by David Mack (pgs 263-264)

The above coupling appears in the Glass Empires version of David Mack's tale. As I understand it (and I could be completely wrong here) Mr. Mack is releasing an expanded version of this tale on it's own. I welcome this expansion as it's my favorite Mirror Universe story so far. I assume this section of the story will still be in the expanded version, but I don't know that for a fact. And even if the scene is intact, or expanded, the page numbers for it will most likely be different.

Margaret "Madge" & Cynthia Sinclair-Alexander from
"Crucible: The Star to Every Wandering" by David R. George III

Gideon Hawkins & his husband Saraj Panjabi + another couple in
"To Reign In Hell: The Exile of Khan Noonien Singh" by Gregory Cox

Thanks Greg & frkcd!

Gell Kamemor & Ravent from
"The Lost Era: Serpents Among the Ruins" by David R. George III

Stefcia & Jameela Janosz from
The Lost Era: The Buried Age by Christopher L. Bennett

George (Harry Kim's Roomie) Brad Harrison & Noah Mannick from
Voyager: Pathways by Jeri Taylor

George comes out to Harry on pages 130-131.

Anyone know the page # that lists Brad & Noah as a couple???

Thanks LightningStorm & DGCatAniSiri!

Just about all the girls in the Alternate Mirror Universe of
"Dark Passions" by Susan Wright

Moll Enor (Trill) & Jayme Miranda (Human) from
"The Best and the Brightest" by Susan Wright

Andrul (Cardassian) & 2 burly Terran men (unnamed) from
"MU: Shards and Shadows: The Sacred Chalice" by Rudy Josephs

Thanks Thor Damar & Christopher L. Bennett!

Gennaro & his husband from
"Myriad Universe: Places of Exile" by Christopher L. Bennett

Sean Hawk (Human) from
"Star Trek: First Contact" by J.M. Dillard
"Section 31: Rogue" by Andy Mangels & Michael A. Martin

Sean is also referenced in several other stories, usually by Ranul Keru. One such example can be found on page 128 of "Destiny, Book One: Gods of Night" by David Mack.

Ranul Keru (Unjoined Trill) from
"Section 31: Rogue" by Andy Mangels & Michael A. Martin
"Immortal Coil" by Jeffrey Lang
"Worlds of DS9: Trill: Unjoined" by Andy Mangels & Michael A. Martin
"Improvisations on the Opal Sea" by Michael A. Martin & Andy Mangels
"Titan: Taking Wing" by Michael A. Martin & Andy Mangels
"Titan: The Red King" by Andy Mangels & Michael A. Martin
"Titan: Orion's Hounds" by Christopher L. Bennett
"Titan: Sword of Damocles" by Geoffrey Thorne
"Destiny Book I: Gods of Night" by David Mack
"Destiny Book II: Mere Mortals" by David Mack
"Destiny Book III: Lost Souls" by David Mack
"Titan: Over a Torrent Sea" by Christopher L. Bennett

Loolooa Tereshini from
"Titan: Sword of Damocles" by Geoffrey Thorne

Thanks RedJack!

Aili Lavena from
"Titan: Taking Wing" by Michael A. Martin & Andy Mangels
"Titan: Orion's Hounds" by Christopher L. Bennett
"Titan: Over a Torrent Sea" by Christopher L. Bennett

Aili might appear in other volumes, but I know she appears in at least these 3, and her omnisexual nature is revealed in OaTS.

Christopher wrote: View Post
I'm fairly sure she's at least mentioned in all five Titan novels and the Destiny trilogy.
Mirror Aili Lavena & Mirror Christine Vale from
"MU: Shards and Shadows: Empathy" by Chritopher L. Bennett

Thanks Christopher!

Bartholomew "Bart" Faulwell & Anthony Mark from
the S.C.E. series.

KRAD wrote: View Post
More accurately:

Dr. Bartholomew "Bart" Faulwell, the linguist and cryptography expert on the U.S.S. da Vinci, is gay. He appeared in 48 of the 74 Starfleet Corps of Engineers eBooks.

His lover, Lt. Commander Anthony Mark, was mentioned in several of the eBooks (first in Hard Crash by Christie Golden), but didn't appear until War Stories Book 2 by Keith R.A. DeCandido (which detailed how the two of them met), and also appeared in Creative Couplings Book 2 by Glenn Hauman & Aaron Rosenberg, and Ghost by Ilsa J. Bick.

The eBook Blackout by Phaedra M. Weldon had a species known as the Asarions, who switch sexes. Bart almost sorta kinda has a relationship with one of them.
Bart is also mentioned in
"Greater Than The Sum" by Christopher L. Bennett

Dantas Falcao (bisexual female) from
"S.C.E.: Buying Time" found in the 'Aftermath' volume.

The Hermat character of Burgoyne from
the "New Frontier" series has bisexual / trans overtones.

Slon & Sotok from
"New Frontier #10: Renaissance" by Peter David

Mirror McHenry from
"New Frontier: Turnaround" by Peter David (pg 114)

Mirror Kalinda & Mirror Robin Lefler appear to be friendly in
"New Frontier: Turnaround" by Peter David

Garak is intimated to be bisexual in
"DS9 #27: A Stitch in Time" by Andrew J. Robinson

He's never involved with any men, in fact the apparent love of his life is a woman, but Garak mentions being powerfully attracted to another male Cardassian; one of the little touches that made me love this book. Andy Robinson has also mentioned in interviews that he played him as if he were gay in his first appearance.

Kelly Eideman from
"DS9: Avatar, Book One" by S.D. Perry

Krissten Richter & Etana Kol from
the DS9 Relaunch + Marvel Comics
"Mission Gamma: Twilight" by David R. George III

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
Thanks for the links 'Steve Mollmann". I wish I could find a detailed list of their appearances.

Christopher wrote: View Post
There's no trade paperback collection of them, yet, but all pre-IDW ST comics (with three exceptions not relevant here) are available on DVD-ROM.
<-- Thanks!

Moq & Yojagh from
"I.K.S. Gorkon #3: Enemy Territory" by Keith R.A. DeCandido (pg 250)

I'm not sure what books these character appear in, but I'm told
Moq also appears in "Klingon Empire: A Burning House" also by KRAD.

Thanks captcalhoun!

Kenneth Norellis from
"Titan: Taking Wing" by Michael A. Martin & Andy Mangels
"Titan: The Red King" by Andy Mangels & Michael A. Martin

Bowan Radowski from
"Titan: Taking Wing" by Michael A. Martin & Andy Mangels
"Titan: The Red King" by Andy Mangels & Michael A. Martin

Ruth Grabowski & "her Jewish girlfriend" from
"TNG: Greater Than the Sum" by Christopher L. Bennett

Mardral (a female Benzite?) is interested in an unnamed female in
"A Singular Destiny" by KRAD (page 51)

---------

Apparently there's some Kirk / Spock slashy-ness in the first editon of Della Van Hise's "Killing Time" novel.

I've heard (but don't know for sure) that there are LGBT or alternate family type references in these novels: (any confirmation would be nice)

"Star Trek: The Motion Picture" by Gene Roddenberry

Christopher wrote: View Post
you're probably referring to the footnote wherein Admiral Kirk (speaking to the readers -- the conceit is that the book is a 23rd-century dramatization of actual events) addresses the rumors of his sexual relationship with Spock and says that, although he has no objection to love in any of its forms, he personally is only interested in women.
^^ I haven't gotten my hands on this book yet, but if the above description is accurate that would mean that even though this took place in a book, we had Kirk speaking with the words of Gene Roddenberry, expressing that LGBT relationships exist in Trek and that Kirk (& Gene) don't have any problem with them. Awesome! I so need to get my hands on this book!

"The Entropy Effect" by Vonda N. McIntyre
"Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan" by Vonda N. McIntyre
"Star Trek III: The Search For Spock" by Vonda N. McIntyre

Christopher wrote: View Post
Entropy Effect referred to group families, partnerships consisting of multiple men and women; these may have been alluded to in one or both of the McIntyre novelizations you mention.
Can Anyone confirm this? I don't own these books either.

"Imzadi" by Peter David

HIj'Qa wrote: View Post
In Peter David's Imzadi Lwaxana Troi says she had been part of an arranged marriage when younger but she called it off when she realized her intended husband was in love with someone else: "Another man." She further states that the same-sex pair "made a cuter couple than we did."
Page #?

"Triangle: Imzadi II" by Peter David

I'm pretty sure the same gay characters referenced by Lwaxana in "Imzadi" are mentioend again in the sequel, but I don't know where.

I've been told there are two lesbian characters in the upcoming Mryiad Universe graphic novel "Star Trek: The Last Generation" (Tasha Yar & Ro Laren) - which can be preordered from Amazon.

Thanks for the correction KRAD.

Yoshi Mishima from
"Starfleet Academy" comics

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
Also, Yoshi Mishima from the Starfleet Academy comics was the subject of hostility from an alien because of his 'romantic involvement' with another male.
DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
it's only explictly said that he is involved in a relationship in his final appearance in issue #17, where it causes troubles with a provisional cadet he's rooming with, with a few implied remarks in a few prior issues (I can remember ones in #11 and #12, but that's about it).
Thanks DGCatAniSiri!

There are great moments in the New Frontier series in which sexual identity is referenced or gender lines crossed - the ones I've noted while working on this project (not mentioned elsewhere in this entry) are:

"New Frontier #12: Being Human" by Peter David (page 218)
Selar has noted that some of her male crewmen seem to be attracted to (male character) Thoth.

"New Frontier #13: Gods Above" by Peter David (pgs 84-85)
Kalinda appears to think that Si Cwan might be coming out to her.

"New Frontier: After the Fall" by Peter David (page 345)
Calhoun's son Xyon believes that Selar's son Xy is hitting on him.

"New Frontier: Treason" by Peter David (pgs 180, 247-248, 329-330)
I'd describe the scenes here but I don't know how to use spoiler tags, and I don't want to mess this up for anyone!
---
"Voyager: Homecoming" by Christie Golden (page 48)
In the first Voyager Relaunch novel, Harry Kim is worried that Libby has moved on in his absence, and his fears are not restricted to only male competition.

Lesbianism is discussed in "Destiny Book II: Mere Mortals" by David Mack (pgs 114-115)

And the DS9 Relaunch did a wonderful job of exploring Andorian sexuality which apparently includes levels of bisexuality (though that's probably not the best word) - I remember there being references of such things between characters Thirishar "Shar" ch'Thane & "his" bondmate Thavanichent "Anichent" th'Dani - even though these characters aren't really male, per say - they are perceived at such by most, just as Shran from Enterprise would be. It's been a while since I read those, but I remember it being handled extremely well.

Gender Swapping Aliens:

Unnamed Alien from Chumbra III from
"TNG #18: Q-In-Law" by Peter David (pg 32)

P’mu’la "Pamela" Hopman from
"The Lost Era: The Sundered" by Michael A. Martin & Andy Mangels

Christopher wrote: View Post
The Manraloth in The Buried Age were capable of gradually transforming their bodies to take on various traits as needed, including different sexes or combinations thereof. They considered it normal to maintain "a proper balance of lovers" from both (or all?) sexes.
Other Sexualities:

KRAD wrote: View Post
Christopher mentioned the Damiani, who are my own creation, a species with three sexes (each one having male and female aspects). They're first seen in the comic book miniseries Perchance to Dream, which came out from WildStorm in 1999-2000, and a character from that miniseries, Ra'ch B'ullhy, also appeared in A Time for War, a Time for Peace by Keith R.A. DeCandido, Trill: Unjoined by Andy Mangels & Michael A. Martin, and Articles of the Federation by Keith R.A. DeCandido. The world of Damiano also showed up in the short story "Oil and Water" by Robert T. Jeschonek in the New Frontier: No Limits anthology, a tale that featured the hermaphrodite Burgoyne, the three-sexed Damiani, and the single-sexed J'naii (from the TNG episode "The Outcast").
KRAD wrote: View Post
You can find Perchance to Dream in the trade paperback entitled Enemy Unseen, or on the DVD Christopher mentioned.
Christopher wrote: View Post
all pre-IDW ST comics (with three exceptions not relevant here) are available on DVD-ROM.
----

Trent Roman wrote: View Post
We know from the series that Bolians have multiple marriages, but I can't recall if the fiction has ever determined whether members of the same sex in those marriages (co-husbands and co-wives) are sexually active together.
---

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
As for genders, Starfleet Command listed the Hydrans as having three sexes but not only were they not shown, the mention itself was brief and games are not all that canon to begin with.
---

Other Questions: ???

Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
One of the MACOs in The Good That Men Do was gay as I recall, though I think it was one of the not-so-heroic characters (boy it's been a while since I worked on these).
Can anybody confirm this? A page number? Anyone?

---

Logan from
"Section 31: Rogue" by Andy Mangels & Michael A. Martin

Ex-Boyfriend of Sean's that's referenced? Can anyone confirm this with a page number?

---

Several people remember DS9 Relaunch character Prynn Tenmei pondering a lesbian encounter. Does anyone know which book this took place in? The page number? Even if the thought was in jest it demonstrates that lesbian / bi relationships weren't unheard of.

---

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
* There's also Ensign Stadi, the quickly-killed Voyager helm officer from "Caretaker," who was established (either in the Caretaker novelization or in KRAD's Brave & the Bold, I forget which) as having lesbian parents.
Can anyone nail down this reference?

---

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Tales from the Captain's Table "Iron and Sacrifice," where one of Captain Sulu's ancestors was a gay male couple.
Page number?

---

Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
I believe in DS9 Mission Gamma: Cathedral that we revealed that Ro Laren had previously had both male and female lovers.
IIRC, that wasn't in MG but in Abyss. She mentioned (in internal dialogue) a list of past lovers, and one of them was called Dana. Which may be a woman, but not necessarily.
I believe we made it explicitly clear in Cathedral, but again, not remembering where or in what scene.
Confirmation? Page #?
-----------------------

Again - the site I hope to put all this information on is http://www.lgbtstartrek.com - bookmark it if you like. Hopefully someday it will be something special.

Anyways - that's the update. I hope this helps. Thanks again to everyone who contributed to (or will contribute to) the thread. Thanks to all those that wanted to say something rude but didn't. And thanks to all peeps involved in Trek who gave us all these wonderful characters!

I've updated this entry as of May 3, 2009.

Last edited by neogothboy74; May 4 2009 at 01:01 AM.
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Old May 3 2009, 03:43 AM   #67
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
Aili Lavena from
"Titan: Taking Wing" by Michael A. Martin & Andy Mangels
"Titan: Orion's Hounds" by Christopher L. Bennett
"Titan: Over a Torrent Sea" by Christopher L. Bennett

Aili might appear in other volumes, but I know she appears in at least these 3, and her omnisexual nature is revealed in OaTS.
I'm fairly sure she's at least mentioned in all five Titan novels and the Destiny trilogy. Her Mirror Universe counterpart appears in Shards and Shadows: "Empathy" and is involved with Mirror Christine Vale. (Can't believe I forgot that one.)
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Old May 3 2009, 03:55 AM   #68
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

Garak is intimated to be bisexual in
"DS9 #27: A Stitch in Time" by Andrew J. Robinson

He's never involved with any men, in fact the apparent love of his life is a woman, but Garak mentions being powerfully attracted to another male Cardassian; one of the little touches that made me love this book. Andy Robinson has also mentioned in interviews that he played him as if he were gay in his first appearance.
I asked an audience question of Andy Robinson once, at an interstate convention, and his reply kinda shocked the room.

A group of us in Sydney had a theory about Bashir and Garak's friendship in the episode "Past Prologue" - Garak was measuring Bashir for a suit, and we'd done some "inside leg" jokes at the time, and started to wonder if Garak was chatting up Bashir. The audience derided my question, but then Andy said that he and Sid had, indeed, played that scene to be ambiguous. Garak would probably do anything to get his own way, Andy reckoned, and he enjoyed watching naive Bashir squirm under his gaze.
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Old May 3 2009, 04:06 AM   #69
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
Yoshi Mishima from
"Starfleet Academy" comics



Anyone know what issues this storyline is in?
It's not quite a storyline - it's only explictly said that he is involved in a relationship in his final appearance in issue #17, where it causes troubles with a provisional cadet he's rooming with, with a few implied remarks in a few prior issues (I can remember ones in #11 and #12, but that's about it).
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Old May 3 2009, 06:00 PM   #70
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

Anna/Lurqal and her relationship with T'Prynn appear in the first three Vanguard books, not just Harbinger.
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Old May 4 2009, 12:58 AM   #71
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

JD wrote: View Post
Anna/Lurqal and her relationship with T'Prynn appear in the first three Vanguard books, not just Harbinger.
I didn't know that! I've not actually read the Vanguard books yet. I have all 4 current volumes on my shelf, plus the Mirror Universe entry. I'm planning on reading them just before the 5th volume comes out in December(?).

---

@Therin: I can tell you that you're not the only one to have this experience with Andy Robinson. He's been very open about his portrayal of Garak, which is just 1 more reason why he's one of my favorite Trek characters of all time. And "A Stitch in Time" remains one of my favorite ever Trek books, and the volume I've read the most times. I know we have "The Calling", but I'd love another story or a full sequel. ;-0)

I edited my already extremely long post above to reflect the info provided here by Christopher, DGCatAniSiri & JD (+ a bunch of stuff I missed on the first pass). Thanks!
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Old May 4 2009, 01:34 AM   #72
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)



"SHRINKAGE!!!"
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Old May 4 2009, 07:54 AM   #73
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

^^ I just updated this thread to get away from Sean Hawk's frostbitten alternate universe genitals. Must we go there again?
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Old May 4 2009, 08:11 AM   #74
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

Wow. Just an outside observer here with nothing near the vast number of resources presented in this thread, but aside from Andy Mangels and Michael A. Martin's beautifully written and developed relationship between Sean Hawk and Ranul Keru, I did not realize how many LGBT characters there were in Trek literature. May we someday see some of these wonderful characters on the screen (at least I hope so). Carry on, I'll not interrupt your thread, I just wanted to make that comment.

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Old May 4 2009, 08:51 AM   #75
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

^^ Glad the thread has helped demonstrate how LGBT friendly Trek can be. Feel free to drop in anytime you like. Hopefully we'll have a complete list someday.
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