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Old April 4 2009, 02:39 AM   #46
KRAD
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

They didn't actually break up, but the attempt at a reconciliation in Ghost didn't entirely go as planned, either.

Sadly, while we were able to tie off many of the assorted character arcs when the series got yanked out from under me, that was one that we were unable to, to my deep regret.
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Old April 4 2009, 01:39 PM   #47
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

I just need to thank everyone who's been contributing to this thread. It's been more informative than I could have guessed. I'd post little responses to everyone but it would fill up too much space, so I'm limiting my responses to bits where I have something else to say besides "You Rock" & "Thank You". But thank you all. I've read every post so far and noted each new piece of information.

Thanks!

Sci wrote: View Post
I'd just like to point out that in including alien species with different sexual paradigms, such as the four-sexed Andorians, it's probably important not to equate them with Human sexual orientations.
I don't. Well, not exactly. I don't view the four gendered Andorians as bisexual or whatever...but there were definitey bisexual overtones in the story of Shar and Anichent. I know they aren't exactly male, but they're close enough that people assume they're male - so I think the overtones were there - and were handled extremely well, I might add.

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
There's also Ensign Stadi, the quickly-killed Voyager helm officer from "Caretaker," who was established (either in the Caretaker novelization or in KRAD's Brave & the Bold, I forget which) as having lesbian parents.
Anyone remember which book this was in?

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
I seem to vaguely remember (from Section 31: Rogue) a brief passing mention of an ex-boyfriend of Hawk's, previous to Keru.
Anyone? A name? A page number?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Two of Khan's male followers are married in TO REIGN IN HELL. I can't recall their names anymore, but the camp's primary physician is gay.
Anybody got names for these cool yet faceless characters? Let me know. This is one of the books that I own (I own all three Khan books) and I want to read them, but have just never quite made it there.

Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
Concerning the Titan character Bowan Radowski, was it just me or was it implied that Radowski was interested in Keru? I remember reading something about a look between them but it has yet to be followed up on. And actually, I don't think the character has appeared since the first 2 Titan novels, though I could be wrong.
It hasn't been made overt, but it's safe to assume that Radowski is attracted to other men -- perhaps exclusively, perhaps not.
Well, Radowski's story was supposed to be part of a "future" Titan project from Mike and I, but it has yet to materialize. Perhaps if I do some comics for IDW it can happen.
Well I hope somebody follows up on it, because this Titan fan has been waiting for THAT story. You mention the comics and that's cool (as long as it's collected into a graphic novel for my shelf)...but is there any reason to think that you won't be writing a future Titan novel?

Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
Meanwhile, Keru ("he") does hook up with someone unnamed ("him") at the end of Sword of Damocles.
You know, I've read that book (and a lot of the other ones listed here) and I somehow missed that...and a lot of other things apparently. lol

Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
I believe in DS9 Mission Gamma: Cathedral that we revealed that Ro Laren had previously had both male and female lovers.
IIRC, that wasn't in MG but in Abyss. She mentioned (in internal dialogue) a list of past lovers, and one of them was called Dana. Which may be a woman, but not necessarily.
I believe we made it explicitly clear in Cathedral, but again, not remembering where or in what scene.
I read those when they were new, and loved them. But this was years before I started noting these kinds of things. Now when I'm reading a Trek book and something like that pops up I make a note of it. Hopefully, I'll eventually have tabs on all the references in the older books, and live to see many more in the newer volumes.

Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
BTW, both bartender Scot Bishop-Walker and security officer Shelly Hutchison are named after real people, both of whom are gay, though I don't believe either of them has had their orientation covered in the books.
That's still cool info to have. Thanks Andy.

Oh. Also...are the comics that feature Richter and Etana available in graphic novel form? If they are I'll try to track them down. I just don't know enough about Star Trek comics.

HIj'Qa wrote: View Post
In Peter David's Imzadi Lwaxana Troi says she had been part of an arranged marriage when younger but she called it off when she realized her intended husband was in love with someone else: "Another man." She further states that the same-sex pair "made a cuter couple than we did."
I've not read 'Imzadi', but I bought it recently along with 'Q-in-Law' & 'Q-Squared' - I plan to read them all soon as I love Peter David's books. I did however read 'Triangle: Imzadi II' which I didn't care for. Anyways, the point of this is that I remember there being a passage like this in 'Triangle' and I'm wondering if Lwaxana doesn't reference the exact same story in the sequel?

KRAD wrote: View Post
I've been told there are two gay characters in the upcoming Mryiad Universe graphic novel "Star Trek: The Lost Generation" - which can be preordered from Amazon.
Minor point: it's entitled The Last Generation, not Lost.
Yeah. That was a typo; I corrected it.

KRAD wrote: View Post
Also: we meet a Benzite character in A Singular Destiny by self who is contemplating a relationship with someone of the same sex.
Do these potential love birds have names? I own 'A Singular Destiny' but like much of the recent releases I've not read it. It's on my shelf though. I look forward to catching up with it though and reading all the books taking place around it in one big reading fest.

KRAD wrote: View Post
Christopher mentioned the Damiani, who are my own creation
Yeah. Someone in another thread recommended 'Perchance to Dream' to me and I made a note of it. I didn't know about the other appearances of them offhand (though now I do - thank you), but I definitely remember reading that New Frontier story as I thought the contrast between the 3 aliens to be very memorable.

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Did Bart and Anthony actually break up?
KRAD wrote: View Post
They didn't actually break up, but the attempt at a reconciliation in Ghost didn't entirely go as planned, either.

Sadly, while we were able to tie off many of the assorted character arcs when the series got yanked out from under me, that was one that we were unable to, to my deep regret.
Is it possible that we'll see these characters in other Trek books? I guess I always just assumed they'd start popping up in guest roles in the other novels.

----------------------------------

Yet Again - Thanks to all those who have contributed to this thread. It's meant a lot to me.
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Old April 4 2009, 02:44 PM   #48
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

Per Memory Beta, Hawk's boyfriend at the Academy mentioned in Rogue was named Logan.

I also seem to remember a scene in one of the later SCE/CoE novellas, where a newly arrived female crewmember tries hitting on Bart Faulwell, he politely informs her that he's not interested... then the woman asks him if he knows about the romantic situation of one of the other females aboard. This ring bells for anyone else out there?
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Old April 4 2009, 02:46 PM   #49
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

^ The two characters from The Last Generation were Tasha Yar and Ro Laren, who were in a relationship together. It was either the 3 or 4th issue that revealed that fact.

Also isn't there a character in New Frontiers that is referred as a s/he?
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Old April 4 2009, 04:01 PM   #50
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

William Leisner wrote: View Post
I also seem to remember a scene in one of the later SCE/CoE novellas, where a newly arrived female crewmember tries hitting on Bart Faulwell, he politely informs her that he's not interested... then the woman asks him if he knows about the romantic situation of one of the other females aboard. This ring bells for anyone else out there?
that's in Buying Time. Dantas Falcao is the lady in question.

just read that this week in 'Aftermath'.
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Old April 4 2009, 04:02 PM   #51
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
Oh. Also...are the comics that feature Richter and Etana available in graphic novel form? If they are I'll try to track them down. I just don't know enough about Star Trek comics.
There's no trade paperback collection of them, yet, but all pre-IDW ST comics (with three exceptions not relevant here) are available on DVD-ROM.
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Old April 4 2009, 05:12 PM   #52
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

rofeta wrote: View Post
The two characters from The Last Generation were Tasha Yar and Ro Laren, who were in a relationship together. It was either the 3 or 4th issue that revealed that fact.
Thanks. I've preordered the story, and that sounds awesome.

rofeta wrote: View Post
Also isn't there a character in New Frontiers that is referred as a s/he?
That's Burgoyne. S/he's listed already. Lover hir.

Christopher wrote: View Post
neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
Oh. Also...are the comics that feature Richter and Etana available in graphic novel form? If they are I'll try to track them down. I just don't know enough about Star Trek comics.
There's no trade paperback collection of them, yet, but all pre-IDW ST comics (with three exceptions not relevant here) are available on DVD-ROM.
Thanks. I'll look into that. Seems like a handy thing to have around. My roomie is a big Daredevil fan and he has something similar.

William Leisner wrote: View Post
Per Memory Beta, Hawk's boyfriend at the Academy mentioned in Rogue was named Logan.
Thanks. I suppose I could have looked that one up myself. I have copies of the things from Memory Beta on Hawk & Keru, and several others mentioned here, but I think some of them have probably been updated since I last checked them, ages ago.

I wonder what every happened to Logan? (I can't help picturing Wolverine)

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
William Leisner wrote: View Post
I also seem to remember a scene in one of the later SCE/CoE novellas, where a newly arrived female crewmember tries hitting on Bart Faulwell, he politely informs her that he's not interested... then the woman asks him if he knows about the romantic situation of one of the other females aboard. This ring bells for anyone else out there?
that's in Buying Time. Dantas Falcao is the lady in question.

just read that this week in 'Aftermath'.
Cool. I like knowing where to find the characters and all the details. This is so helpful! And I own that one for sure.
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Old April 4 2009, 06:25 PM   #53
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
Do these potential love birds have names? I own 'A Singular Destiny' but like much of the recent releases I've not read it. It's on my shelf though. I look forward to catching up with it though and reading all the books taking place around it in one big reading fest.
One is named Mardral. We never get the name of the woman she's interested in. It's on page 51 of ASD.


Yeah. Someone in another thread recommended 'Perchance to Dream' to me and I made a note of it. I didn't know about the other appearances of them offhand (though now I do - thank you), but I definitely remember reading that New Frontier story as I thought the contrast between the 3 aliens to be very memorable.
You can find Perchance to Dream in the trade paperback entitled Enemy Unseen, or on the DVD Christopher mentioned.


Is it possible that we'll see these characters in other Trek books? I guess I always just assumed they'd start popping up in guest roles in the other novels.
Well, a couple of the SCE cast appear in A Singular Destiny. Dunno if we'll see them beyond that.
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Old April 4 2009, 06:38 PM   #54
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
I wonder what ever happened to Logan? (I can't help picturing Wolverine)
Well, little cutie Sean does like him some big hairy fellas, so it's not out of the realms of possibility...
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Old April 4 2009, 07:14 PM   #55
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

KRAD wrote: View Post
One is named Mardral. We never get the name of the woman she's interested in. It's on page 51 of ASD.
Nice. Thanks for the page #.

KRAD wrote: View Post
You can find Perchance to Dream in the trade paperback entitled Enemy Unseen, or on the DVD Christopher mentioned.
That's good to know too. One of the thoughts I had early one wasn't just to list the book and author and what-have-you for each instance, but also to have other information about where you're likely to find them - so that's quite helpful; I'll make a note of it.

KRAD wrote: View Post
Well, a couple of the SCE cast appear in A Singular Destiny. Dunno if we'll see them beyond that.
Well I hope we see them in other novels as well. They seem like perfect recurring characters that could pop up just about anywhere.

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
I wonder what ever happened to Logan? (I can't help picturing Wolverine)
Well, little cutie Sean does like him some big hairy fellas, so it's not out of the realms of possibility...
My thoughts exactly. And being a collector of adult fan art, I have images of Wolverine doing just about everyone. It's no stretch to imagine him with Hawk - perhaps I could get a friend to do this pairing. Hmmmmmm...
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Old April 5 2009, 12:06 AM   #56
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
I wonder what ever happened to Logan? (I can't help picturing Wolverine)
Well, little cutie Sean does like him some big hairy fellas, so it's not out of the realms of possibility...
If someone wants to imagine Neal McDonough (First Contact era) snogging Hugh Jackman (any era), who am I to stop them?

heck, in Ravenous, he even does a "naked in the river, scream to the skies" Wolverine yell. Maybe he learned it somewhere...

And I will confirm here that the name was NOT a reference to Logan's Run.
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Old April 5 2009, 12:30 AM   #57
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
That's Burgoyne. S/he's listed already. Lover hir. .
Mark McHenry had no initial problems having a relationship with Burgy - at the same time Burgy was dating (and impregnated) Dr Selar. The scene where Burgy tells Mark that s/he's also pregnant is hilariously handled.
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Old April 5 2009, 02:47 AM   #58
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
That's Burgoyne. S/he's listed already. Lover hir. .
Mark McHenry had no initial problems having a relationship with Burgy - at the same time Burgy was dating (and impregnated) Dr Selar. The scene where Burgy tells Mark that s/he's also pregnant is hilariously handled.
Agreed. That storyline was so much fun, and played very well, with McHenry's feelings & the whole Bury/Selar thing. That was one of the many aspects that made me love those books. And the thing I was amazed about was that it dealt with these kinds of issues head on, and not only did the author handle this and many other such subjects with style & humor, the NF went on to become quite popular - with people being very passionate about the series. I couldn't get into it when they were new (I read the first 4 when they were released), but in 2007 I gave them another go, and I just fell in love with it all. One of the joys of coming so late to the series is that I got to read them all in a very short period of time, and I've also not had to wait as long for 'Treason'. Peter David rocks. A lot of people don't like him, and many feel that his books are too cartoonish, but the thing about that is that Classic Trek was like that too; he's captured Classic Trek's style in a way that many other authors and tv shows have not. Aside from that, PD deals with LGBT issues in very cool ways - I love that PD's characters (for the most part) aren't heterosexist in any way. They know that LGBT people exist; this doesn't bother them; and they tend to not assume that anyone is any orientation before they hear otherwise. It's incredibly refreshing.

Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
I wonder what ever happened to Logan? (I can't help picturing Wolverine)
Well, little cutie Sean does like him some big hairy fellas, so it's not out of the realms of possibility...
If someone wants to imagine Neal McDonough (First Contact era) snogging Hugh Jackman (any era), who am I to stop them?

heck, in Ravenous, he even does a "naked in the river, scream to the skies" Wolverine yell. Maybe he learned it somewhere...
I love the movie Ravenous, but I've not seen it in about 8 years I think. I have no memory of Neal being in the movie. Now might be a good time to revisit it. I used to work in a video store and I'd recommend that movie all the time. I remember catching it on cable when it was new to the outlet, and being freaked out in one scene and then laughing a lot in the next. It's a very interstingly put together movie.
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Old April 5 2009, 03:11 AM   #59
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
A lot of people don't like him, and many feel that his books are too cartoonish, but the thing about that is that Classic Trek was like that too; he's captured Classic Trek's style in a way that many other authors and tv shows have not.
TOS was not deliberately "cartoonish." On the contrary -- Roddenberry's goal was to get away from the cartoony approach to previous SFTV like Lost in Space and do something that was an adult drama, with the same level of credibility and character realism as any police, medical, or courtroom drama of the day. If you look at the early episodes in particular, they're extremely grounded and naturalistic in their depiction of the characters' lives and interactions; it feels like a workplace drama that just happens to be in the future. If it got more melodramatic and larger-than-life in later seasons, that was a departure from the original intent. And for the most part, at least in the first two seasons, ST was a very believable, non-cartoonish show by the standards of its day. If it looks somewhat campy today, that's because TV on the whole was less sophisticated and subtle back then. It's absolutely wrong to characterize ST as a show that was trying to be cartoonish or goofy or campy. It was significant precisely because it was the first ongoing SFTV series that didn't go for that tone.
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Old April 5 2009, 03:27 AM   #60
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

Christopher wrote: View Post
neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
A lot of people don't like him, and many feel that his books are too cartoonish, but the thing about that is that Classic Trek was like that too; he's captured Classic Trek's style in a way that many other authors and tv shows have not.
TOS was not deliberately "cartoonish."
I didn't mean to imply that it was deliberate or that every episode was cartoonish; merely that the cartoonish nature of some of PD's books is officially on display in the series that spawned the franchise. And that this aspect of the series, regardless of the intentions of it's creators, has drawn many new fans to the series, and is remembered fondly by others who watched it from the beginning (though certainly not all, and possibly not by a majority). I caught the series in reruns when I was child, and I'm sure I didn't start from the beginning, so this cartoonish quality (which was only reinforced by the then airing Trek Cartoon) was very much present from the beginning of my perspective on the series, and I'm probably not the only fan who has experienced Classic Trek in such a fashion.

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