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Old April 3 2009, 02:46 PM   #16
Chemahkuu
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

Thanks Andy.
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Old April 3 2009, 02:52 PM   #17
Andy Mangels
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

Also, there was this character from Lost Era - The Sundered, who apparently doesn't even rate a listing on Memory Beta despite his/her extensive novel appearance

Ensign P’mu’la (Pamela) Hopman (an exosociology expert who belongs to an androgynous humanoid species whose members change genders regularly; a large, bulky being who identifies most closely with the female gender, she insists on being addressed as Ensign Pamela in order to avoid the use of awkward, synthetic cross-gender language. Her terrestrial-sounding surname is the result of her once having married into a human family)

One of the MACOs in The Good That Men Do was gay as I recall, though I think it was one of the not-so-heroic characters (boy it's been a while since I worked on these), and I believe in DS9 Mission Gamma: Cathedral that we revealed that Ro Laren had previously had both male and female lovers.

Anyone wanting to list religious Star Trek characters can also find those in books by Mike and I. That's part of my diversity agenda as well...
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Old April 3 2009, 03:07 PM   #18
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

In Myriad Universes: Places of Exile, I mention that Gennaro, a male Voyager crewmember whose voice was heard over the comm in "Displaced," has a husband back home. Since the PoE timeline diverged from the main timeline three years into Voyager's journey, this would be true of the main-timeline Gennaro as well.

neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
Concerning the Titan character Bowan Radowski, was it just me or was it implied that Radowski was interested in Keru? I remember reading something about a look between them but it has yet to be followed up on. And actually, I don't think the character has appeared since the first 2 Titan novels, though I could be wrong.
It hasn't been made overt, but it's safe to assume that Radowski is attracted to other men -- perhaps exclusively, perhaps not.


neogothboy74 wrote: View Post
Ranul Keru (Unjoined Trill) from
...
I assume he's also in the latest Titan installment ("Over A Torrent Sea" by Christopher L. Bennett).
Yes.

OaTS also establishes that the Selkie crewmember Aili Lavena has, in the course of her life, had numerous sexual liaisons with "alien males, females, and miscellanea." So she's basically omnisexual, and that may be fairly common for her species.


I've heard (but don't know for sure) that there are LGBT or alternate family type references in these novels: (any confirmation would be nice)

"The Entropy Effect" by Vonda N. McIntyre
"Star Trek: The Motion Picture" by Gene Roddenberry
"Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan" by Vonda N. McIntyre
"Star Trek III: The Search For Spock" by Vonda N. McIntyre
Entropy Effect referred to group families, partnerships consisting of multiple men and women; these may have been alluded to in one or both of the McIntyre novelizations you mention. As for the TMP novelization, you're probably referring to the footnote wherein Admiral Kirk (speaking to the readers -- the conceit is that the book is a 23rd-century dramatization of actual events) addresses the rumors of his sexual relationship with Spock and says that, although he has no objection to love in any of its forms, he personally is only interested in women.


I know there are more that I'm missing. I know there are some gender swapping aliens and some alternate family type aliens that are probably of note. Again - any help is appreciated.
Well, if we're counting aliens with unusual sexualities, the Damiani (from KRAD's Perchance to Dream comic, Articles of the Federation, and elsewhere) are a three-sex species, and Perchance to Dream is about the TNG crew's efforts to protect a newly elected Damiani leader from moralists who object to the fact that she only has one sexual partner instead of the usual two.

Then there are the Pak'shree from Titan, who are born asexual, become male at puberty, then turn female at full maturity.

In Over a Torrent Sea, the squales have four sexes, "two that were roughly male (in that they only donated gametes) and two that were hermaphroditic, exchanging gametes with each other and both bearing and raising young."

The Manraloth in The Buried Age were capable of gradually transforming their bodies to take on various traits as needed, including different sexes or combinations thereof. They considered it normal to maintain "a proper balance of lovers" from both (or all?) sexes.
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Old April 3 2009, 04:01 PM   #19
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

LONG REPLY - Sorry.

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
As for genders, Starfleet Command listed the Hydrans as having three sexes but not only were they not shown, the mention itself was brief and games are not all that canon to begin with.
I'll still make a note of it. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with all the alien sexuality stuff, but I definitely want to keep track of it; I'm just not sure it will find a home on my website or not - it depends. Thanks for the info though. Seriously.

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
The Andorian sexuality is one of the most interesting in Trek. They have Four sexes, each take part equally in the courting, relationship, sexual intercourse and even marriage. The four split into two "male" and two "female";, with only the male and female most resembling Human genders leaving their homeworld apparently, the two stranger sexes remain on Andor. This can lead to trouble maintaining a good population density, achieving a balanced and stable union of four rather than two.
I agree that the Andorian's sexuality is very interesting. I read the DS9 Relaunch, as well as "The Good That Men Do" - both of which dealt with Andoran sexuality. Though I'm pretty sure that all of the "male" (Chan & Thaan) & "female" (Zhen & Shen) Andorians are able to leave Andor - or at least that's how I remember it; I know that all four genders were brought to DS9 at some point. Speaking of which, I miss Shar from DS9 terribly. I hope we see 'him' again.

Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
David R. George III wrote: View Post
I also included a relationship between Krissten Richter and Etana Kol in my Mission: Gamma novel, Twilight. I think I introduced the relationship, and perhaps one of the two characters, though if I recall correctly, that relationship had been crafted for a subsequent novel; it just made dramatic sense for the romance to be shown at an earlier time in the story arc.
Sorry David - Mike and I introduced the characters first in our Marvel Comics DS9 series, then transported them over via Marco to the Mission Gamma series. You wrote them first in the MG books, but they were our characters, and part of the original bible for MG.
I was pretty sure that I'd read that those characters were introduced in comics before the books. Is there anywhere online where I could find a complete listing of the appearances of these characters?

Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
Admiral Krell's husband was Kon’Jef, based on a very large costumer friend of mine named Jeff Cone.
Thank you Andy. I edited my list above to include Kon'Jef.

Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
Also, there was this character from Lost Era - The Sundered, who apparently doesn't even rate a listing on Memory Beta despite his/her extensive novel appearance

Ensign P’mu’la (Pamela) Hopman (an exosociology expert who belongs to an androgynous humanoid species whose members change genders regularly; a large, bulky being who identifies most closely with the female gender, she insists on being addressed as Ensign Pamela in order to avoid the use of awkward, synthetic cross-gender language. Her terrestrial-sounding surname is the result of her once having married into a human family)
I remembered this one in passing, but wouldn't have been able to tell you her name. I'd made a note of it and planned to go back someday and sort it out. Thanks for the info. This is making things much easier!

Andy Mangels wrote: View Post
One of the MACOs in The Good That Men Do was gay as I recall, though I think it was one of the not-so-heroic characters (boy it's been a while since I worked on these), and I believe in DS9 Mission Gamma: Cathedral that we revealed that Ro Laren had previously had both male and female lovers.
I don't recall the MACO character at all, and I definitely read that book. I loved it, by the way. I've yet to read "Kobayashi Maru" yet, as I wanted to reread this one first and I just don't have the time at the moment. I'll look for this character though. Thanks.

And I dimmly recall the Ro Laren comment now, as if from a dream. Maybe it was a dream? You don't sound so sure. lol. Just makes me love her more if it's true, and I didn't think that was possible.

Christopher wrote: View Post
In Myriad Universes: Places of Exile, I mention that Gennaro, a male Voyager crewmember whose voice was heard over the comm in "Displaced," has a husband back home. Since the PoE timeline diverged from the main timeline three years into Voyager's journey, this would be true of the main-timeline Gennaro as well.
Very cool.

Christopher wrote: View Post
It hasn't been made overt, but it's safe to assume that Radowski is attracted to other men -- perhaps exclusively, perhaps not.
THANK YOU. lol I thought I was going crazy.

Christopher wrote: View Post
OaTS also establishes that the Selkie crewmember Aili Lavena has, in the course of her life, had numerous sexual liaisons with "alien males, females, and miscellanea." So she's basically omnisexual, and that may be fairly common for her species.
Omnisexual is good. We love Captain Jack at our house.

Christopher wrote: View Post
As for the TMP novelization, you're probably referring to the footnote wherein Admiral Kirk (speaking to the readers -- the conceit is that the book is a 23rd-century dramatization of actual events) addresses the rumors of his sexual relationship with Spock and says that, although he has no objection to love in any of its forms, he personally is only interested in women.
That sounds really cool! I mean, that's from the mouth of Kirk; words placed there by Gene Roddenberry! That's key. Even if it wasn't in the shows or movies, who could argue that Gene and Kirk were acknowledging that GLBT relationships existed and were talked about. Thank you.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, if we're counting aliens with unusual sexualities...
I am making note of them. Some of them may be relevent to a LGBT audience. Others may be used to demonstrate that Trek has embraced all sorts of different options. It's all good to know.

Again to everyone who has contributed to this threat - THANK YOU.

I'm running out of ways to say that, which is nice actually.
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Old April 3 2009, 04:18 PM   #20
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

In Jeri Taylor's Pathways Harry Kim's academy roommate (whose name escapes me) was gay.
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Old April 3 2009, 04:27 PM   #21
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

Brad Harrison and Noah Mannick are the couple among the Voyager crew from Pathways.

Also, Yoshi Mishima from the Starfleet Academy comics was the subject of hostility from an alien because of his 'romantic involvement' with another male.
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Old April 3 2009, 04:28 PM   #22
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

LightningStorm wrote: View Post
In Jeri Taylor's Pathways Harry Kim's academy roommate (whose name escapes me) was gay.
Yeah. His name was George and he's on my list. I don't remember a last name; does anyone have any more info on him?

Thanks for contributing LightningStorm.

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
Brad Harrison and Noah Mannick are the couple among the Voyager crew from Pathways.

Also, Yoshi Mishima from the Starfleet Academy comics was the subject of hostility from an alien because of his 'romantic involvement' with another male.
Dude. Thank You (and excuse my use of the word Dude. lol) The names of the Voyager guys were driving me crazy!!!

I'm not familiar with the comics characters at all, so that's a big help!

Last edited by neogothboy74; April 3 2009 at 04:48 PM.
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Old April 3 2009, 06:00 PM   #23
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

I seem to recall(dimly, and I'm open to correction)that Prynn Tenmei briefly considered "chatting up"one of her female Academy classmates when she was having little sucess with the males.

Maybe I just dreamed that...I'm not at home and can't remember the book(DS9r) in question.
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Old April 3 2009, 06:09 PM   #24
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

flandry84 wrote: View Post
I seem to recall(dimly, and I'm open to correction)that Prynn Tenmei briefly considered "chatting up"one of her female Academy classmates when she was having little sucess with the males.

Maybe I just dreamed that...I'm not at home and can't remember the book(DS9r) in question.
I can't remember. It does sound like something she might have said in jest. But I've been awake far too long. I'm going to bed. lol

Thanks for sharing your possibly dreamed up Prynn moment, flandry84.
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Old April 3 2009, 08:13 PM   #25
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

Andy Mangels wrote: View Post

David R. George III wrote: View Post

I also included a relationship between Krissten Richter and Etana Kol in my Mission: Gamma novel, Twilight. I think I introduced the relationship, and perhaps one of the two characters, though if I recall correctly, that relationship had been crafted for a subsequent novel; it just made dramatic sense for the romance to be shown at an earlier time in the story arc.
Sorry David - Mike and I introduced the characters first in our Marvel Comics DS9 series, then transported them over via Marco to the Mission Gamma series. You wrote them first in the MG books, but they were our characters, and part of the original bible for MG.
I didn't recall about the comics, but I did note that I only introduced the relationship in the books, and that others had created it. I wasn't trying to take credit for your and Mike's creations, only attempting to help Jason.
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Old April 3 2009, 08:28 PM   #26
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

^And while Andy & Mike created and introduced Richter and Etana in the comics, I'm fairly certain that the comics never got around to establishing their relationship before the series was cancelled. In fact, I don't think Richter got more than one passing mention in one issue. So in terms of what's actually in print, their relationship was indeed introduced in Twilight.
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Old April 3 2009, 08:45 PM   #27
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

I understand that there was a gay Cardassian mentioned in the Sacred Chalice story in the MU shards and shadows anthology. He was the son of a Gul I believe.
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Old April 3 2009, 08:49 PM   #28
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

We know from the series that Bolians have multiple marriages, but I can't recall if the fiction has ever determined whether members of the same sex in those marriages (co-husbands and co-wives) are sexually active together.

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Old April 3 2009, 08:53 PM   #29
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

Star Trek: The New Voyages 2: The Procrustean Petard
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Th...rustean_Petard

Kirk, McCoy, Uhura, Laura Breen (redshirt), Brad Collins (redshirt), and other people (including Klingons) involuntarily switch genders (their size and musculature also change). Spock and Kang have their chromosomes changed to XYY, becoming even more masculine.

In the end, Breen volunteers to go through the conversion process again, not to become female, but to become super-masculine:

"There is a better idea for you, Mr. Spock," Breen broke in. "The Doctor can tell you who is the strongest male changee, and so can I. I am. I volunteer. I do not mind remaining a man. In fact, I prefer it." She looked at Kirk rather wistfully. "Any reason I might have to change back--would not work out. And if I'm to be a man, I'd as soon be one in spades, doubled and redoubled."

After the second conversion (presumably to XYY), Breen ends up 6-foot-5.

It's also implied that Collins remained converted because of a relationship with Breen, but it's left ambiguous.

Spock (and possibly Kang too) remained XYY permanently.

Last edited by kitsune; April 3 2009 at 09:23 PM.
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Old April 3 2009, 09:08 PM   #30
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Re: LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

^OMG, that sounds like a fucking stupid story.

RE: IKS Gorkon, IIRC, it's in Book 3 'Enemy Territory', and only mentioned in passing by the security chief to prove his omniscience. ah...just checked and jammily found the page at the first go, Moq and Yojagh. Moq is married. both are bekks. page 249 and page 250.
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