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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old March 26 2009, 06:17 PM   #1
brianbeercan
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Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

4x22 For The Cause: Kasidy Yates gets sentenced to 6 months in prison

4x26 Broken Link: Garak get sentenced to 6 months in a holding cell

5x08 Things Past: Garak goes on a trip to Bajor with Odo, Sisko, and Dax

5x10 Rapture: Kasidy gets out of prison

Not to mention, people mentioned having Garak tailor something for them at least twice in the season before Things Past.

The time line here always bugged me. That is all.
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Old March 26 2009, 07:02 PM   #2
Daneel
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

Yeah, I also noticed the time line inconsistencies here, and it kind of bugged me too. The obvious answer is that the writers wanted to use Garak again and didn't really want to wait for the actual six months to be up. Now, it's not too much of a stretch for the viewer to believe that it has already been six months since "Broken Link", but Kasidy being arrested first and released later --while ostensibly being given the same sentence-- presents problems.

The only explanation is that maybe Kasidy was taken somewhere far --perhaps Earth-- for her trial, and maybe she wasn't actually sentenced until somewhere around the time of "Broken Link". She would then be released around the same time as Garak, but again, there would be some travel time between Earth (or wherever) and DS9 -- ergo, she doesn't arrive until "Rapture". It's the only explanation I can think of.

Really, it's not the only time line inconsistency we were presented with (Changeling Bashir, anyone?).

As for the references to Garak, the only one I can think of is when O'Brien tells the dying Muniz in "The Ship" that they'll have Garak make him a new uniform when they get back to the station. I guess Garak was still operating his tailor's shop out of his holding cell.
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Old March 26 2009, 07:14 PM   #3
The Grim Ghost
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

There is an easy enough explanation, perhaps Garak was just released early for good behavior, or for overcrowding issues..
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Old March 26 2009, 07:39 PM   #4
Marie1
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

Plus even now, people get out early for good behaviour etc.
It's actually a bit astonishing they put him away at all- look how much Quark gets away with.
Time-line wise, how long was he actually there?
I hadn't realized how long some events went on til a rewatch where I caught "it's been ___ months and..."
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Old March 27 2009, 03:26 AM   #5
Jono
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

It's also possible the Yates didn't come straight to DS9 from her gaol cell, plus depending on where she was in the quadrant it would take time to get transport to DS9.
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Old March 27 2009, 03:53 AM   #6
shanejayell
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

Garak might have been tailoring in his cell.
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Old March 27 2009, 04:52 AM   #7
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

What always bothered me about this was, Garak's sentence was for what amounted to attempted genocide (of the Founders), not to mention attempting to commandeer a starship to do it. And for all that, he got just six months?!? And apparently didn't even serve that much? Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot?
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Old March 27 2009, 05:45 AM   #8
Daneel
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

^^^^^
Indeed, I thought that his sentence was ludicrously short to begin with (as did Odo, apparently), which makes me think it's unlikely he got paroled early, good behaviour or not. For what he did, I can't believe anyone would be itching to let him out before his sentence was finished.
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Old March 27 2009, 06:02 AM   #9
LeadHead
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

Who knows how long Kassidy's trial took? Depending on where it was, how long it took to get there, when they actually got proceedings going. Probably Garak got out for good behavior or cracked some Secret Cardassian Code for starfleet which earned him a release.
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Old March 27 2009, 08:30 AM   #10
Timo
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

But we know from TOS that people in Star Trek do not go to jail for punishment. People in Star Trek go to jail because that's how they facilitate forced psychological reconditioning. There is no punitive aspect to the jailing, because crime is not considered to be cured by punishment - it's a mental illness cured by therapy. There probably isn't even a trial involved, but rather a medical hearing where doctors decide which sort of therapy the patient is to receive.

If you can be programmed not to do it again in X number of sessions (and indeed UFP medicine seems to achieve that pretty well), then there is no reason to hold you in prison beyond that. Temporary lockings-up in shipboard or stationboard gaols serve a different function - they prevent a person from disappearing, or from harming people or property around him, until the person can either be subjected to psycho-corrective treatment or deemed sobered-up or otherwise calmed down.

We're thus left to wonder why anybody, be it Odo or Sisko or their superiors, would choose to lock up Garak in a holding cell for half a year. We could just as well say that Garak completely misunderstood his sentence - he thought he was going in for the punitive aspect (and thus rightfully commented that the sentence was awfully short), whereas in reality he was confined for his forced therapy only, and this therapy allowed him considerable freedom of movement and action (just like Tom Paris did make-work in "Caretaker"), explaining possible references to other characters interacting with him.

...Although I can just imagine how deep yer standard UFP shrink would get into Garak's skull before he or she gave up, weeping...

As regards Yates' and Garak's sentence lengths, Yates was captured at an unknown stardate that supposedly preceded the SD 49904 of the next episode. She was released at an unknown stardate that supposedly preceded the SD 50416 of the next episode. 500 stardates is more or less six months in TNG-era thinking, at least in theory - but here the theory seems to have been put in practice, so probably somebody was keeping track.

Garak was captured in SD49962 or so. He was first seen released at an unknown stardate in the middle of a long string of stardate-less episodes - and nothing in the episode really demanded that it precede the one where Yates was released. Yet conveniently, we need not really reshuffle anything, because neither "Things Past" nor the intervening "The Ascent" are episodes that would take weeks upon weeks of the lives of our heroes. Essentially, "Things Past", "The Ascent" and "Rapture" could all have happened on the very same week, rendering moot the point that we saw Garak on the loose before we saw Yates.

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Old March 27 2009, 07:29 PM   #11
Myasishchev
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

They went to town on Garak with the neural neutralizer.
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Old March 30 2009, 08:10 PM   #12
SoM
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

Timo wrote: View Post
...Although I can just imagine how deep yer standard UFP shrink would get into Garak's skull before he or she gave up, weeping...
LOL.

Timo wrote: View Post
Garak was captured in SD49962 or so. He was first seen released at an unknown stardate in the middle of a long string of stardate-less episodes - and nothing in the episode really demanded that it precede the one where Yates was released.
The uniforms - "Rapture", where we see KY released, is the first episode with the First Contact uniforms (and, given Sisko's clearly ill-fitting uniform, they were obviously compulsory). "Things Past" [and "The Ascent"] both use the early DS9/VOY uniforms.
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Old March 31 2009, 05:18 AM   #13
nx1701g
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

Daneel wrote: View Post
^^^^^
Indeed, I thought that his sentence was ludicrously short to begin with (as did Odo, apparently), which makes me think it's unlikely he got paroled early, good behaviour or not. For what he did, I can't believe anyone would be itching to let him out before his sentence was finished.
Maybe the Federation released him early or Starfleet Intelligence made some sort of deal for him. Also, maybe he was held locally and Kassidy was held on Earth.
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Old March 31 2009, 06:51 AM   #14
Timo
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

As for those references to Garak being on the lam during his supposed six months, I was able to track down two:

* In "The Ship", a week or two into the sentence, O'Brien jokes about having Garak do some uniform repair work for him once they return. It could be taken as evidence that Garak is not available for such work, too, considering it is indeed a joke.

* In "Looking For A New Record In Episode Name Length In All The Wrong Places", supposedly a week or two later, Kira gets her new pregnancy uniforms from Garak, and the implication is that he completed them just moments ago. Doesn't mean he's loose on the promenade, of course; Tom Paris was put to (useful/therapeutic/punitive?) work during his term, too.

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Old March 31 2009, 05:23 PM   #15
jamestyler
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Re: Didn't Garak go to Jail in season 5?

I wouldn't be surprised if Garak was still working through his sentence. Knowing the Bajorans love for their war orphans fund, it could be that his asking price was sent to them instead of in his own pocket.

A short sentence could have been given as he was acting out if distress instead of anything pre-motivated. A 24th century temporary insanity type of thing? Just a thought...

I like the idea of Cassidy having to go to Earth for a trial before her sentence officialy begun. It makes sense for the inconsistancy as we see Garak is send to the holding cell immediatly. It could be that he was dealt with under Bajoran law, Cassidy under Federation law. Different processes.
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