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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

 
 
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Old April 5 2009, 08:37 PM   #31
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

Greystone is involved in robotics and artificial intelligence. You can see an old fashioned looking centurion in the background in the trailer that aired on skiffy. Daniel tries to recreate a replicant body of his daughter into which he can download the replicated memory patterns she uploaded to the virtual matrix. There's no guarantee he's successful, or even if he is successful in the short term that this replicant survives. Is what Zoe becomes a true skin job that can't be differentiated from a human in medical tests like the later skin jobs? Probably not. I'm sure the technology isn't the same. For some reason--whether the replicant dies or they decide the technology is too unethical or dangerous, this knowledge gets suppressed and/or destroyed and the centurions are later created. Monotheistic centurions who want freedom. My mind keeps going to the fact that the centurion can't have pulled a monotheistic faith, or any faith, out of thin air. I'm thinking this can be reconciled far easier than some of Star Trek's contradictions.

EDIT--the centurion can be seen at the 0:39 mark.
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Old April 6 2009, 11:21 PM   #32
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

That adama girl kinda looks a bit geekish "Drools"

Question will there be hot bi chicks in this series?

Ok will there be crucifications at one point?
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Old April 12 2009, 04:05 AM   #33
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

One thing, didn't the final five create fleshy Cylons not humans?
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Old April 12 2009, 04:08 AM   #34
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

Well, we'll need to see the actual episode to be sure, but the working assumption is that the humanoid cylons built in Caprica are more like Terminators, and their human appearance is only skin deep.
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Old April 12 2009, 05:26 AM   #35
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

Maybe greystone taps into old kbol network?
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Old April 12 2009, 07:06 AM   #36
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

That was my assumption. I seriously doubt Graystone can make a human robot so authentic that a doctor couldn't tell it was an artifical person upon autopsy like the later skin jobs. Not at this point in time. He's just desperate to make a body into which he can download the copied synaptic patterns of his daughter.
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Old April 12 2009, 05:13 PM   #37
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

Well I'm hoping that its pretty obviously a robot, otherwise it makes no sense at all for them to be surprised in the mini-series about Cylons looking like humans.
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Old April 12 2009, 05:29 PM   #38
David cgc
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

I somehow doubt Graystone would publicly announce the (presumably failed) cylon prototype that was his zombified robot daughter.
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Old April 12 2009, 08:29 PM   #39
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

It would make a lot more sense for Zoe's body to be genetically engineered but 100% human. Doesn't have to be her "clone" DNA-wise but just a human body designed to look like her, with a brain modified to accept direct input (a "program") but otherwise with perfectly human structures - synapses, etc.

Phily B wrote: View Post
Well I'm hoping that its pretty obviously a robot, otherwise it makes no sense at all for them to be surprised in the mini-series about Cylons looking like humans.
I'm still wondering what it was about the skinjobs that qualified them to be robots in the first place. Maybe they were always just genetically engineered beings with brains that can have info downloaded into them, and connected via networks. But you don't have to be a robot to do that. Just ask Chuck Bartowski.

That would mean the skinjobs never were "Cylons" in any real sense, and had more in common with normal, non-engineered humans. Since the skinjobs were obviously just using their connection with the metal Cylons for cynical and irrational purposes, maybe there doesn't need to be a real connection?
I somehow doubt Graystone would publicly announce the (presumably failed) cylon prototype that was his zombified robot daughter.
That means that Zoe (and any other skinjobs) must be kept secret for the duration of the series. It will limit the types of stories that can be told, and require even characters like Joe Adama, who are opposed to the skinjob idea (?), to keep quiet about it when they'd have the motive not to, which will require contorted storytelling - which is already a deficiency of these writers. I want to see them break free from this tendency, not get worse about it.

Rather than see this series put itself in a straightjacket like that, I'd rather they not bother too much about consistency with BSG, because one of the biggest problems Caprica is going to have is finding new ways of expanding the story and holding viewer interest without resorting to storytelling and characterization that feels phoney and driven only by the needs to maintain this silly "secret." I don't want them to get cancelled trying to contort themselves into the already contorted BSG backstory, which is over and done with, so what's the point?

Maybe this is the solution: genetically engineered humans like Zoe were know about in the past, but since they were organic and not mechanical, there was nothing robotic about them, so nobody connected them with the "Cylons." The surprise was not that the genetically engineered humans existed, but that they gave a frak about Cylons and apparently were siding with them (a cynical pose, since they also oppressed them - which also makes more sense if the skinjobs have no authentic kinship to true Cylons).

Last edited by Temis the Vorta; April 12 2009 at 08:40 PM.
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Old April 12 2009, 08:47 PM   #40
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
I'm still wondering what it was about the skinjobs that qualified them to be robots in the first place. Maybe they were always just genetically engineered beings with brains that can have info downloaded into them, and connected via networks. But you don't have to be a robot to do that. Just ask Chuck Bartowski.

That would mean the skinjobs never were "Cylons" in any real sense, and had more in common with normal, non-engineered humans.
That has been my theory ever since "No Exit".
The 13th tribe where ordinary humans who developed organic memory transfer as a means to become immortal.
The other tribes didn't like that and war broke out, which ultimately lead to the first exodus.
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Old April 13 2009, 08:42 PM   #41
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
I'm still wondering what it was about the skinjobs that qualified them to be robots in the first place.

The 7 models had synthetic bodies that didn't age- the five were just more advanced.

They didn't have natural organic bodies... just very good synthetic copies.
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Old April 13 2009, 11:04 PM   #42
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

"Synthetic" just means artifically created. You can artificially create a 100% organic being. They're synthetic but not robotic.

If the skinjobs are not organic, then it would be easy to tell the difference via tests. That means they must be organic, but then the question becomes, what qualifies them to be "robots"?

I mean what are those suckers made of? Plastic? Old shoes?

I think they're just organic beings that were manufactured in a lab or a factory and their brains are engineered to accept "programming," just like 100% organic Chuck Bartowski's brain is.

There's no need for the skinjobs to be anything but artificially-made humans, and no evidence to the contrary. In fact, the story makes no sense unless that's the situation - otherwise the Colonials could have told the difference very easily.

The only reason the skinjobs "had to be Cylons" was to explain their loyalty to the metal Cylons. But since we now know that that's just a product of insanity and stupidity on the part of the skinjobs, that explanation is no longer even important to the story.

That might also explain Cavil's ire. He wants to be a perfect, wonderful robot, but he's not a robot - not of any type. Yet he somehow got it into his head that he's a robot (because the Final Five are under the odd delusion that they are robots). No wonder the poor boy is confused. This isn't a story about robots, it's a story about deluded humans.

And we never did get a straight answer about whether any of the skinjobs age.
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Old April 13 2009, 11:31 PM   #43
David cgc
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

Doesn't the inheritance count for anything? I mean, saying that the twelve models are human and not cylon completely ignores their origins. The humanoid models were built by the centurions specifically as their next generation. They have enough anatomical differences between evolutionary humans that are notable (bioluminescence and photosensitivity throughout their flesh and bones, telepathy, projection, enhanced strength) that they aren't the exact same species (even discounting the fact that cylons and humans have such trouble breeding).

I don't understand what you expect from the humanoid models. You think they should've woken up, having been fabricated by mechanical models, already indoctrinated the the cylon civilization either through pre-programing or receiving the consciousness of a centurion who wanted the trade up, and immediately said, "What's with this? Screw you, Moms, Dads, and Centurion 90875, I'm going to go live on Caprica and get a human lover who will understand me because we both have to eat and poo and have nothing else in common!"

Even if the humanoid models were exact clones of humans, with no special abilities at all, but just had the minds of former centurions who had upgraded to flesh bodies, they still wouldn't be culturally human. Or culturally Colonial, to choose a less confusing phrasing. Why is this even an issue?
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Old April 14 2009, 01:51 AM   #44
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

Kelso wrote: View Post
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
I'm still wondering what it was about the skinjobs that qualified them to be robots in the first place.

The 7 models had synthetic bodies that didn't age- the five were just more advanced.
How do we know they didn't age? It seems to me that Cavil's motivations for kidnapping Hera fall apart if his species is not facing extinction by natural causes in short order.
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Old April 14 2009, 02:08 AM   #45
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Re: Advance review of SciFi's "Caprica" movie--SPOILERISH

Obviously Tigh aged.
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