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View Poll Results: Grade "To the Lighthouse"
"I'll be back" - Excellent 21 39.62%
"Come with me if you want to live." - Above Average 17 32.08%
"Thank you for explaining." - Average 13 24.53%
"If we stay the course we are dead, we are all dead!" - Below Average 2 3.77%
"You are TERMINATED!" - Poor 0 0%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 28 2009, 07:07 PM   #106
Sephiroth
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

One of the spare chips is a redundant motor conrol and "dumb A.I."chip incase the head comes off (it's puropse is seen in 1x02) and can only be activated by remote, and the third chip could be backup memory storeage, but you'd think Weaver would know about it and have it popped out
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Old March 28 2009, 08:00 PM   #107
Ryan8bit
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

nx1701g wrote: View Post
Arrghman wrote: View Post
nx1701g wrote: View Post

The images of the endoskull. It was a match for the T-888.
Looked to me like the images of the endoskull were actually data taken from John Henry's "brother" on his own body. That doesn't mean that Cameron is a 888, just that John Henry only has data on a 888. After all, how could he have any data on Cameron or any other terminator model? He's just an AI with access to a single terminator body and not any actual knowledge of the future beyond what's in front of him.
Possible, but we know she's at least below the 900 Series. The 900 series was designed for combat against other machines according to information from canon sources.
It's pretty clear that the diagrams were purely of John Henry and were to be used as a guide. If Cameron were a T-888, that would violate continuity since Vick, also a T-888, could not identify what model she was.

The 900 series is actually not canon.
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Old March 28 2009, 08:01 PM   #108
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
nx1701g wrote: View Post
Arrghman wrote: View Post

Looked to me like the images of the endoskull were actually data taken from John Henry's "brother" on his own body. That doesn't mean that Cameron is a 888, just that John Henry only has data on a 888. After all, how could he have any data on Cameron or any other terminator model? He's just an AI with access to a single terminator body and not any actual knowledge of the future beyond what's in front of him.
Possible, but we know she's at least below the 900 Series. The 900 series was designed for combat against other machines according to information from canon sources.
It's pretty clear that the diagrams were purely of John Henry and were to be used as a guide. If Cameron were a T-888, that would violate continuity since Vick, also a T-888, could not identify what model she was.

The 900 series is actually not canon.
Incorrect. The 900 Series is canon in the original timeline of T3. it can be seen in CRS' facility with two techs working on it. While not canon in the T:TSCC sense, most of the models shown on the series match their predecessors.

They have been used several times in the novels, but those are interpreted by what you want to believe.

The T-950 is, however, noncanon.

- 900 from T3. Closeups of it were included in the official magazine for the film.
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Last edited by nx1701g; March 28 2009 at 08:15 PM.
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Old March 28 2009, 08:10 PM   #109
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

Sephiroth wrote: View Post
One of the spare chips is a redundant motor conrol and "dumb A.I."chip incase the head comes off (it's puropse is seen in 1x02) and can only be activated by remote, and the third chip could be backup memory storeage, but you'd think Weaver would know about it and have it popped out
Unless she is of another faction. But that's even an out there excuse.
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Old March 28 2009, 09:51 PM   #110
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

nx1701g wrote: View Post
MNM wrote: View Post
nx1701g wrote: View Post
We also know now, however, that Cameron is a Triple 8.
Based on what?
The images of the endoskull. It was a match for the T-888.
Yes I thought that is what you meant.

I'm not sure I agree. Those specs could have been all that John Henry has on Terminators in his data banks, and they were being taken as a rough guide to where the chip might be. they might have been a stock image the producers used, etc..

Cameron may indeed be a T888, but I dont think that scene particularly confirms it.
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Old March 28 2009, 11:21 PM   #111
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

nx1701g wrote: View Post
Incorrect. The 900 Series is canon in the original timeline of T3.
So that makes the point moot since this series honors essentially nothing from T3.

Even if it did follow T3, explain how there could be a 900 series before Judgment Day and Skynet did not evolve since then. Explain how Kyle described the evolution from series 600 to 800. There is no explanation other than that T3 was not well thought out, in a multitude of ways. Fortunately it was purely in the background so that much about it remains conjecture anyway.

None of this matters in relation to Cameron's model. She is not a T-888.
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Old March 28 2009, 11:34 PM   #112
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

Rowan Sjet wrote: View Post
Looked to me like the images of the endoskull were actually data taken from John Henry's "brother" on his own body. That doesn't mean that Cameron is a 888, just that John Henry only has data on a 888. After all, how could he have any data on Cameron or any other terminator model? He's just an AI with access to a single terminator body and not any actual knowledge of the future beyond what's in front of him.
Yeah, that's what I got from it. Also interesting is that the conversation the henchman was having over the phone seemed to be with John Henry's "brother" itself, and not a middleman.
This was my interpretation as well. I figured that Sacrificial Henchman was going to buy it since he was taking much too long to get at Cameron's chip. Stop yakkin' and get to work, buddy!
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Old March 29 2009, 12:01 AM   #113
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

Am I the only one who thinks that Cameron made a huge strategic blunder by killing the henchman, rather than taking him captive and Jack Bauering him for info?
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Old March 29 2009, 12:16 AM   #114
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

hyzmarca wrote: View Post
Am I the only one who thinks that Cameron made a huge strategic blunder by killing the henchman, rather than taking him captive and Jack Bauering him for info?
Perhaps, but she *is* a terminator.
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Old March 29 2009, 12:41 AM   #115
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

Terminator's recent ratings trend, new to old: 3.83 - 3.63 - 3.50 - 2.96. Terminator has risen three weeks in a row! I'd still be shocked if it was renewed though.
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Old March 29 2009, 01:24 AM   #116
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
nx1701g wrote: View Post
Incorrect. The 900 Series is canon in the original timeline of T3.
So that makes the point moot since this series honors essentially nothing from T3.

Even if it did follow T3, explain how there could be a 900 series before Judgment Day and Skynet did not evolve since then. Explain how Kyle described the evolution from series 600 to 800. There is no explanation other than that T3 was not well thought out, in a multitude of ways. Fortunately it was purely in the background so that much about it remains conjecture anyway.

None of this matters in relation to Cameron's model. She is not a T-888.
The Official Magazine of T3 also said they considered making Arnie into a T-900 for the film - or at least that's what Stan Winston said in the section about designing the machines of the film - and did a workup of the design. The story notes were used for the video games. It was meant as the stepping stone between the T-800 and the T-X.

But, as you said, it is a moot point because T3 doesn't honor the T3 continuity. But, the majority of the machines from the original timeline do keep the specifics of the previous timeline. Just named differently.
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Old March 30 2009, 12:36 AM   #117
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

Liked the episode, particularly the revelation that Skynet exists in the present and is not JH, but I could have done with a few more Derek-Cameron scenes (especially a flashback to the "Chopin basement") instead of the jungle scenes. I kinda liked the understated manner of Charlie's dead though (not I like it that Charlie is dead, but spoilers told us this long ago so it was no surprise); let the viewers fill in exactly how it happened, so no one is angry that John left him behind or it wasn't heroic enough.

nx1701g wrote: View Post
Sephiroth wrote: View Post
actually, no, while Cameron's skull may retain alot of the trip8's design (not much can really be done to the cosmetic design of a human skull and keep it viable as an infiltration design) the short reboot time, plus her chasis built to mimic a female (unless we see a female terminator clearly referred to as a trip8, the model number is for male terminators only) prove that she is not a trip 8
That model number is not for male Terminators only. Rosie was a T-888 according to the producers. Rosie also had the same chip design as Cameron.
Source? I very much doubt Rosie was a T-888 (those don't have a self-terminating chip for one, and the frame of a T888 always seem to follow male anatomy and I doubt a "female" frame would keep the model number). Maybe this was just an offhand remark?

I agree with those who say that JH's "brother" just sent the T888 schematics that he had found in JH's database. He was just unlucky that Cameron now suddenly reboots in 30s instead of 120s. Cameron must have made a few changes after getting caught by this trick twice!

hyzmarca wrote: View Post
Am I the only one who thinks that Cameron made a huge strategic blunder by killing the henchman, rather than taking him captive and Jack Bauering him for info?
No, I agree: serious blunder. Though admittedly, Cameron was defending herself and may not have had a clear overview of the situation (like, how many enemies were around).

Sephiroth wrote: View Post
This episode answered a few questions, #1 Cameron tortured Derek in D&D under John's orders #2 Weaver and SKYnet are not working for the same goal
Agreed on #2, but how do you figure #1? It isn't even certain Cameron was referring to the basement. Fischer and his torture, admittedly from Jesse's timeline, is another possibility. I'm confused from which timeline Cameron is suppose to come anyway - did Jesse miscarry, on the "Carter", in more than one timeline? And even if it was about the basement in D&D, why would it be under John's orders?

Since Cameron declared that she didn't have any memories left prior to being reprogrammed (though we know she has been regaining some since her chip damage), shouldn't Derek have remarked on that?

Regarding Weaver and the Connors, since both are firmly in the crosshairs of "brother" Skynet I see a sort of weird alliance coming between them.
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Old March 30 2009, 03:13 AM   #118
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

It would be ironic if the reason Cameron rebooted "early" was because of the explosive trigger she implanted in her own brain.
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Old March 30 2009, 04:16 AM   #119
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

Am I crazy, or is this show going a similar route to T3 with the 'Skynet is software/virus' angle?
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Old March 30 2009, 04:20 AM   #120
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Re: Terminator 2-20 "To the Lighthouse" - Discuss/Grade <SPO>

Assuming the brother metaphor holds up, Skynet would exist at a centralized location just like John Henry does... it sounds more like it just was spreading worms around to let it control stuff rather then the system itself being distributed.
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