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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

 
 
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Old March 21 2009, 11:22 PM   #16
scotthm
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
So it's basically "This explanation doesn't stand up to scrutiny. That means it's better than something that would."
Has it never occurred to you that there might be things that you cannot understand? I don't mean things that haven't been explained sufficiently to you, but things that your mind just cannot grasp?

I think it's much more satisfying to leave certain things unexplained and unknown because to do otherwise makes them too mundane. I'm more than willing to believe that the universe has secrets that the human mind is not capable of comprehending, and I like that the show had some of that left in it.

---------------
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Old March 21 2009, 11:28 PM   #17
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

scotthm wrote: View Post
Myasishchev wrote: View Post
So it's basically "This explanation doesn't stand up to scrutiny. That means it's better than something that would."
Has it never occurred to you that there might be things that you cannot understand? I don't mean things that haven't been explained sufficiently to you, but things that your mind just cannot grasp?

I think it's much more satisfying to leave certain things unexplained and unknown because to do otherwise makes them too mundane. I'm more than willing to believe that the universe has secrets that the human mind is not capable of comprehending, and I like that the show had some of that left in it.

---------------
I also think there's an astronomical difference between fiction not explaining itself adequately and that piece of fiction being about a lack of explanation. In this case, part of BSG's story is that there are forces at work that are not explained, ever, to the human race. We are small entities in the universe and are not nearly as knowledgeable about its complexities as we think. Ambiguous endings are as valid as revelatory endings, especially when the story itself is about ambiguity.
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Old March 21 2009, 11:53 PM   #18
Chess Piece Face
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

WeAreTheBorg wrote: View Post
I myself instinctively felt that if we actually got concrete explanations, they would be unsatisfying. I began to get this feeling in No Exit when the mysterious grandeur of the final 5 was put into simpler terms. If that happened with the rest of the mythology on the show, it could have been horrible.
Yes, it could have been horrible like the midichlorian explanation for the force...but it could also have been awesome like (in my opinion) the explanation and story of John/Cavil. So, because it COULD be bad is not a reason to just be happy with no explanation or answer at all.

The poster above who said when Ron couldn't come up with a good answer that that was his brain telling him it was a bad idea to begin with is correct. I am a designer and all the time I am doing something and when there is an element that just does not fit my brain will tell me in subtle ways. And I will keep trying to force it to fit and it ends up 100 percent of the time, that that piece was not needed or was not working in my design, no matter how bad I wanted to keep it.
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Old March 21 2009, 11:56 PM   #19
Chess Piece Face
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
MR: I know that you don’t let yourself be guided by what you think the fan reaction might be, and you do what you feel is right for the show, but the ending of Kara – her just disappearing like that. That’ll certainly be a starting point for debate.
RDM: Oh yeah, it’ll be controversial. There will be people who will absolutely hate it and think that we failed in our mission. We debated it in the [writers] room, I thought about it a long time, and I had sort of the same answer. And the more I struggled to give definition to it, the less satisfying it became
This feeling is what happens when your brain is trying to tell you something's a bad idea, Ronald.
This is the quote I was writing about above...and if this is what Ron was talking about when he said he had to throw plot out the window to concentrate on character then he blew it. Not explaining her is not character development Ron.

Epic fail on that one...go ahead and write "it's about characters stupid" on the board and pat yourself on the back all you want.
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Old March 22 2009, 12:04 AM   #20
scotthm
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

Chess Piece Face wrote: View Post
Not explaining her is not character development Ron.

Epic fail on that one...go ahead and write "it's about characters stupid" on the board and pat yourself on the back all you want.
I will explain Kara for you. She died and her ghost came back to fulfill her destiny.

Does that make you feel better?

---------------
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Old March 22 2009, 12:08 AM   #21
Myasishchev
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

scotthm wrote: View Post
Myasishchev wrote: View Post
So it's basically "This explanation doesn't stand up to scrutiny. That means it's better than something that would."
Has it never occurred to you that there might be things that you cannot understand? I don't mean things that haven't been explained sufficiently to you, but things that your mind just cannot grasp?
Not in principle, no. I don't understand calculus, but this is not because calculus is fundamentally not understandable. Then again, I'm a positivist.

I think it's much more satisfying to leave certain things unexplained and unknown because to do otherwise makes them too mundane. I'm more than willing to believe that the universe has secrets that the human mind is not capable of comprehending, and I like that the show had some of that left in it.

---------------
And mysticism can work. Take for example the Invisibles or The Filth, two of Grant Morrison's best works--that stuff is a mess, but it works on a mystical level, and never really cops out with mysticism as a means to explain key plot points. Mysticism did not work in this instance, for precisely that reason, and others.
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Old March 22 2009, 12:12 AM   #22
Chess Piece Face
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

scotthm wrote: View Post
Chess Piece Face wrote: View Post
Not explaining her is not character development Ron.

Epic fail on that one...go ahead and write "it's about characters stupid" on the board and pat yourself on the back all you want.
I will explain Kara for you. She died and her ghost came back to fulfill her destiny.

Does that make you feel better?

---------------
No. Not at all. I already KNOW she died and came back to fulfill her destiny and I knew it 2 seasons ago.

Who brought her back? Why did this thing that brought her back choose her? What is the deal with the thing that brought her back? Where did it come from? What does it look like? Why is it interested in humanity?
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Old March 22 2009, 12:14 AM   #23
Myasishchev
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

Chess Piece Face wrote: View Post

No. Not at all. I already KNOW she died and came back to fulfill her destiny and I knew it 2 seasons ago.

Who brought her back? Why did this thing that brought her back choose her? What is the deal with the thing that brought her back? Where did it come from? What does it look like? Why is it interested in humanity?
Why, V'Ger seeks its creator of course!

Hilariously, the theories that the black hole was there to hit a huge Trekkian reset button on the whole proceeding look like good ideas in retrospect.
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Old March 22 2009, 12:16 AM   #24
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

I wonder, how do the people complaining about the ambiguity of the ending feel about, say, Stanley Kubrick's film 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)?
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Old March 22 2009, 12:24 AM   #25
Myasishchev
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

2001 was great. 2001 was set up from the beginning to do what it did.

It made man, then it came back and judged him, and perhaps remade him into something even greater.

It was ambiguous and mystical, but like I said, mysticism can work if set up properly.

In fact, 2001 wasn't close to as off-the-wall as Daybreak--we had everything we needed in 2001 to explain what we knew happened and theorize about what we didn't. We had an instrumentality, in the form of the monolith; we had a recognizable goal, that being the directed evolution of humankind; and finally we had reasonable actions taken in pursuit of that goal, the visit of the monolith coinciding with humanity's development of AI and venturing to Jupiter.

And we do learn in the later books that humanity is actually a failure in the monoliths' eyes... but 2001, despite its ambiguity, is clear and definite enough to allow the imagination to soar and to fall, thinking about the possibilities for Dave Bowman and for all humankind, from transcendence to extinction.

We don't even know enough to profitably hypothesize what BSGod's goal is.

2001 is also an exercise in pure style, to the extent that some criticize it for lacking substance. I think that's wrong in 2001's case... but right on the money for BSG.
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Old March 22 2009, 12:26 AM   #26
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

Warp Coil wrote: View Post
I actually liked everything up until this last episode. Actually, I liked everything up until they reached the second earth. It's only the last 20-30 minutes that ruined everything for me.
Yup, same here.
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Old March 22 2009, 12:27 AM   #27
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
And if you can't see the metaphor, then you're being wilfully blind to the possibilities of language.
On the contrary, if you're going to insist that anyone should have anticipated that as an alternative meaning for the "Daybreak" title you're being an willful obscurantist.
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Old March 22 2009, 12:38 AM   #28
Harvey
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
And we do learn in the later books that humanity is actually a failure in the monoliths' eyes... but 2001, despite its ambiguity, is clear and definite enough to allow the imagination to soar and to fall, thinking about the possibilities for Dave Bowman and for all humankind, from transcendence to extinction.
The novels are irrelevant. I'm talking purely about Kubrick's cinematic expression.

We don't even know enough to profitably hypothesize what BSGod's goal is.
I vehemently disagree. "God," as expressed by the "Angels" wants to end the cycle of violence. And that was expressed with far less ambiguity than, say, Bowman's transformation at the end of 2001 (excluding the heaps of exposition about it in the novel, which is a great, but nearly entirely separate, work in another medium).
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Old March 22 2009, 12:41 AM   #29
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
We don't even know enough to profitably hypothesize what BSGod's goal is.
I vehemently disagree. "God," as expressed by the "Angels" wants to end the cycle of violence.
Not necessarily. It - or its angels - are certainly interested in the question, though.
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Old March 22 2009, 12:44 AM   #30
Harvey
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Re: RDM interview about the finale here...

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
We don't even know enough to profitably hypothesize what BSGod's goal is.
I vehemently disagree. "God," as expressed by the "Angels" wants to end the cycle of violence.
Not necessarily. It - or its angels - are certainly interested in the question, though.
They're interested in its possibility. They're not deeply invested--Head Six's comments about mathematics doesn't suggest deep emotional investment. She'd like the cycle to end, and expects it eventually will, and even acts to move things in that direction. But at the end of the day, if it doesn't, they can always try again, and it is of no matter.
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