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Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

 
 
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Old March 21 2009, 08:02 AM   #16
The Master of Tarquin Hill
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

bryce wrote: View Post
Master of Tarquin Hill wrote: View Post
sidious618 wrote: View Post

Clearly not the message of the show.
Or, it clearly IS the message of the last episode.

I think this week's little animation at the end - "You damn hippies!" - kinda acnowledges that the producers were expecting the episode could be interpreted that way...to be a neo-Luddite "back to nature" polemic...
Yeah, the Easy Rider reference was blatant to someone as old as me. And it didn't make me happy in any way.
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Old March 21 2009, 08:04 AM   #17
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

Master of Tarquin Hill wrote: View Post

Or, it clearly IS the message of the last episode.
I think that your summary of the message misses some big chunks. They abandoned technology not because it was bad, but because they naively believed that abandoning it would break the cycle. That didn't work, wiping the slate clean didn't stop humans from repeating the sins of humans (whatever angel Baltar said they were). I think the real message is the nuances of "All this has happened before, and will happen again." Technology is just one of the tools used to repeat the cycle, not the evil that drives it.
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Old March 21 2009, 08:06 AM   #18
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

I fucking loved it.
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Old March 21 2009, 08:07 AM   #19
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I fucking loved it.
seconded

some people need to sit back and enjoy it for what it is, entertainment, i was highly entertained
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Old March 21 2009, 08:09 AM   #20
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

I wouldn't say it totally sucked, but emotionally the ending was unsatisfying in many ways. It should have ended with Bill looking out at the plateau by Laura's grave. The 150,000 years later bit was cheesy, cheesy, cheesy with more cheese please. I already knew that their plan to stop the destructive cycle of time by giving up their tech was pretty damn naive. Didn't need the coda to tell me. Eventually technology is always recreated. What's to keep humans and cylons from repeating their mistakes? Special, magical, wonderful Hera? More character moments were needed and less action.
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Old March 21 2009, 08:20 AM   #21
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
I wouldn't say it totally sucked, but emotionally the ending was unsatisfying in many ways. It should have ended with Bill looking out at the plateau by Laura's grave. The 150,000 years later bit was cheesy, cheesy, cheesy with more cheese please. I already knew that their plan to stop the destructive cycle of time by giving up their tech was pretty damn naive. Didn't need the coda to tell me. Eventually technology is always recreated. What's to keep humans and cylons from repeating their mistakes? Special, magical, wonderful Hera? More character moments were needed and less action.
I agree about the cheese. Seeing RDM standing in front of "the angels" made we want to hurl. Hitchcock he is not.
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Old March 21 2009, 08:26 AM   #22
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

The ending was "God did it."

A whole series of creative weak points, where characters were driven by seemingly magical visions and the plot driven by seemingly magical coincidences and prophecies, was disguised by excellent acting and production...but more than that, buoyed along by the fact that it was supposed to be sci-fi, that it had a hard military edge to it, that we felt these deeply flawed people could be real and thus, somehow, everything would make some sort of sense.

But actually, "God did it" was the answer to everything. Kara back from the dead? God did it. New Raptor? God built a new Raptor. Head Six? Duh, that was just God sending an angel to bang Baltar in "33." All that shit where the characters did things they'd never have done otherwise because of visions or other magical BS, and we swallowed it because we thought it would somehow mean something? Naah, it was just God directing events.

Okay, so it's a cute reference to Mitochondrial Eve...not that being half-Cylon evidently meant jack. Humanity already lived on another planet--a second friggin Earth in an utterly cheap sci-fi fakeout--so the whole series was God jacking off the Cylons and Colonials so there could be an extra 38,000 people or so there being hunter-gatherers? Quite a plan, that God.

OH AND GOD MIGHT BE A ROBOT ALSO LOL GET IT

I really do feel let down. Part of me wants to type some rage-filled Internet-style sick joke about the real God giving Ron Moore AIDS and how it'd just be returning the favor, but I don't want to cheapen my feelings of being let down by doing so. I feel genuinely disappointed. He had fucking angels walking around on modern-day streets looking at pictures of ASIMO in some attempt to go on pretending this was sci-fi. This was fucking Highway to Heaven.

I applaud the work done on this series by the cast and crew in service of an Emperor who had no clothes.
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Old March 21 2009, 08:26 AM   #23
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

USS Gettysburg wrote: View Post
Master of Tarquin Hill wrote: View Post

Or, it clearly IS the message of the last episode.
I think that your summary of the message misses some big chunks. They abandoned technology not because it was bad, but because they naively believed that abandoning it would break the cycle. That didn't work, wiping the slate clean didn't stop humans from repeating the sins of humans (whatever angel Baltar said they were). I think the real message is the nuances of "All this has happened before, and will happen again." Technology is just one of the tools used to repeat the cycle, not the evil that drives it.

^ Now I *LIKE* that interpretation!


I just wish I thought it was the one RDM had intended...
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Old March 21 2009, 08:32 AM   #24
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

Did anyone see symbolism in Adama leaving? The survivors staying in Africa are in line with our scientific beliefs, but Adam(a) going out on his own in the wilderness reminds me of the Book of Genesis. A way to reconcile religion and science.

By the way, why the frak is Starbuck the harbinger of the apocalypse?
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Old March 21 2009, 08:36 AM   #25
The Master of Tarquin Hill
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

JNG wrote: View Post
The ending was "God did it."

A whole series of creative weak points, where characters were driven by seemingly magical visions and the plot driven by seemingly magical coincidences and prophecies, was disguised by excellent acting and production...but more than that, buoyed along by the fact that it was supposed to be sci-fi, that it had a hard military edge to it, that we felt these deeply flawed people could be real and thus, somehow, everything would make some sort of sense.

But actually, "God did it" was the answer to everything. Kara back from the dead? God did it. New Raptor? God built a new Raptor. Head Six? Duh, that was just God sending an angel to bang Baltar in "33." All that shit where the characters did things they'd never have done otherwise because of visions or other magical BS, and we swallowed it because we thought it would somehow mean something? Naah, it was just God directing events.

Okay, so it's a cute reference to Mitochondrial Eve...not that being half-Cylon evidently meant jack. Humanity already lived on another planet--a second friggin Earth in an utterly cheap sci-fi fakeout--so the whole series was God jacking off the Cylons and Colonials so there could be an extra 38,000 people or so there being hunter-gatherers? Quite a plan, that God.

OH AND GOD MIGHT BE A ROBOT ALSO LOL GET IT

I really do feel let down. Part of me wants to type some rage-filled Internet-style sick joke about the real God giving Ron Moore AIDS and how it'd just be returning the favor, but I don't want to cheapen my feelings of being let down by doing so. I feel genuinely disappointed. He had fucking angels walking around on modern-day streets looking at pictures of ASIMO in some attempt to go on pretending this was sci-fi. This was fucking Highway to Heaven.

I applaud the work done on this series by the cast and crew in service of an Emperor who had no clothes.
Excellent post.

Thank You
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Old March 21 2009, 08:39 AM   #26
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

IvosevicJ wrote: View Post

By the way, why the frak is Starbuck the harbinger of the apocalypse?
I have the feeling that the whole harbinger thing, and RDM's inability to resolve it, is the impetus behind RDM's declaration that it's the characters, not the plot. IOW, he abandoned that idea.
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Old March 21 2009, 08:51 AM   #27
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

I wouldn't say it sucks, but it wasn't what it could have been.

Make mention of how their technology isn't going to last them very long, that within a few generations they'll be throwing spears next to the natives, but to give up everything on a whim of "maybe this will work!" was just too much. The 12 endings made me start wondering when it would end too. The last 25 minutes or so was just this side of "meh."
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Old March 21 2009, 09:01 AM   #28
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

JNG wrote: View Post
The ending was "God did it."

A whole series of creative weak points, where characters were driven by seemingly magical visions and the plot driven by seemingly magical coincidences and prophecies, was disguised by excellent acting and production...but more than that, buoyed along by the fact that it was supposed to be sci-fi, that it had a hard military edge to it, that we felt these deeply flawed people could be real and thus, somehow, everything would make some sort of sense.

But actually, "God did it" was the answer to everything. Kara back from the dead? God did it. New Raptor? God built a new Raptor. Head Six? Duh, that was just God sending an angel to bang Baltar in "33." All that shit where the characters did things they'd never have done otherwise because of visions or other magical BS, and we swallowed it because we thought it would somehow mean something? Naah, it was just God directing events.

Okay, so it's a cute reference to Mitochondrial Eve...not that being half-Cylon evidently meant jack. Humanity already lived on another planet--a second friggin Earth in an utterly cheap sci-fi fakeout--so the whole series was God jacking off the Cylons and Colonials so there could be an extra 38,000 people or so there being hunter-gatherers? Quite a plan, that God.

OH AND GOD MIGHT BE A ROBOT ALSO LOL GET IT

I really do feel let down. Part of me wants to type some rage-filled Internet-style sick joke about the real God giving Ron Moore AIDS and how it'd just be returning the favor, but I don't want to cheapen my feelings of being let down by doing so. I feel genuinely disappointed. He had fucking angels walking around on modern-day streets looking at pictures of ASIMO in some attempt to go on pretending this was sci-fi. This was fucking Highway to Heaven.

I applaud the work done on this series by the cast and crew in service of an Emperor who had no clothes.
Wow. Did you completely miss the sense of mystery and wonder that permeated this show from the beginning? I seriously doubt we're meant to take everything as freakin LITERALLY as you describe it. There's a reason this show was filmed and written in such a poetic and artful way, after all. And why it always focused more on the characters over the plot and mythology. Because that's what the show was really about.

Hell, I may be a hardcore athiest and analytical thinker in real life, but I still know how to put that aside and embrace the magic of a fictional universe now and again.
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Old March 21 2009, 09:02 AM   #29
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

Master of Tarquin Hill wrote: View Post
sidious618 wrote: View Post
bryce wrote: View Post
I don't hate the show and I'm glad I watched - but yeah, I'm pretty seriously let down that they whole point was a very simplistc and very very cliche' message that "technology is teh evil and God is watching us!!!"
Clearly not the message of the show.
Or, it clearly IS the message of the last episode.
No, it very obviously wasn't. There was no message. It was a television show, not a college thesis.

Battlestar Galactica was a challenge, not a message. It's from the miniseries: It's not enough that we survive; we have to be worthy of surviving.

After everything they did, after everything they'd been through, they tried, they really tried, to end the war with the Cylons peacefully... and it failed because of their inner vengeance and bloodlust, with the Cylon civilization seemingly destroyed.

So they decided to end the whole thing. Stop the never-ending cycle of war and violence that their cultures had been caught up in not because of science but because of their own inner weaknesses. Lee expressed it pretty well: It's not that science was bad, it's that they weren't good enough of people to handle the moral responsibilities that scientific achievement gave them. The fault lies not in our science but in our stars.

Terminating technological civilization and dissolving their corrupt and broken society was a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. The end being, of course, to take the best in them, such as language (representing knowledge) and infuse it into a culture that was more moral than their own. To start over.

The ending is not about saying technology is bad. The ending is about challenging us to ask whether we're good enough for the world we live in. Hell, it's evening questioning of God -- he seems to be planning these things, manipulating events, and trying to provoke the worst in sentient entities. "He doesn't like being called that name." Is he God or the Devil? Are HeadSix and HeadBaltar angels or demons?

And by extension, are we good or bad?

It's a question, not a message.
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Old March 21 2009, 09:18 AM   #30
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Re: My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

Did anyone see symbolism in Adama leaving? The survivors staying in Africa are in line with our scientific beliefs, but Adam(a) going out on his own in the wilderness reminds me of the Book of Genesis. A way to reconcile religion and science.
I admit that I did think of the book of Genesis, and I completely understood Adama's need to be alone for awhile and to say goodbye to Laura, but a far more mundane, character driven question keeps popping up in my head about old Bill, this character we've known for four years: They don't have any cell phones with them. There aren't any mailboxes. Bill just left. Yes, Bill loved Laura, but he didn't only love Laura. I don't know about anybody else, but the last four years worth of episodes sort of gave me the idea that Bill loved Lee and Saul, too. That he loved them a lot. He never wanted to see them again? Lee didn't want to see him? Saul and Ellen just went off wherever with no means of contact? I'm not saying they'd all live together, but....Bill wouldn't want to send his son a card? Mr. "if it were you, we'd never leave"?
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