Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

Dusty Ayres · March 19 2009, 05:27 PM

More bitching about Joss Whedon, this time about how he appropriates Asian culture to be used on Firefly and Dollhouse:

[QUOTE]I don

Borgminister · March 19 2009, 05:47 PM

Oops.

ManOnTheWave · March 19 2009, 05:53 PM

Bad Bishop · March 19 2009, 05:58 PM

Dusty Ayres wrote:

More bitching about Joss Whedon, this time about how he appropriates Asian culture to be used on Firefly and Dollhouse:

I don

Is this about the legendary Hawaiian lounge singer Don Ho?

Neroon · March 19 2009, 06:00 PM

Could be about his Sicilian supervisor......

ManOnTheWave · March 19 2009, 06:04 PM

Bad Bishop wrote:

I don

Is this about the legendary Hawaiian lounge singer Don Ho?

He was appropriated by Apple.

Apparently with the help of Joss Whedon.

Admiral Buzzkill · March 19 2009, 06:12 PM

Let the copyright holder on Asian culture sue through the courts.

Dusty Ayres · March 19 2009, 06:32 PM

Sorry, everybody, but I'm using a crappy old computer because my regular ones's in the shop.

Here's the text in question:

I don’t really like Joss Whedon.

Phew, there I said it. Sure I admire Whedon’s gender politics, but I find his dialogue and characters glib and unbelievable.

But my real problem with Whedon is much more superficial.

While most people were enjoying the full use of their patella, I spent last July lying in front of the TV after having the anterior cruciate ligament in my left knee repaired. To cheer me up my loving roommates bought me the boxset of Firefly. I loved the movie Serenity and I will always have a soft spot for Buffy (well, seasons 1 & 2) so I was pretty thrilled. But after the first episode opened with a coupla blonde actors speaking some sort of mangled hybrid of Mandarin and Cantonese, I wasn’t so sure.

After screening several episodes where - apart from being space cowboys and quasi-anarchists - the cast of the show wear kimonos, carry paper parasols, and talk about making pau, I started to get more and more annoyed. But was I just being a jerk? What was so wrong with the array of East Asian symbols and decor on the set of Firefly? Was I preventing myself from enjoying a perfectly good TV show by being some sort of yellow fever watchdog?

Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

USS Mariner · March 19 2009, 06:36 PM

^Still can't see it. Link?

EDIT: Thanks.

Admiral Buzzkill · March 19 2009, 06:49 PM

This part:

why are there absolutely zero actors of East Asian descent on the show?

I must admit I always wondered about that. I imagine, if asked, that Whedon would have an answer - but I've never run across it and confess that I'm not so much interested in either the hostile speculations of the author of this piece or the defensive rationalizations of fellow whedonites (okay, I hate that. Whedonista would be just as trite. Whedoholic? Whediot?). I'd like to hear what Whedon would say, though.

Kelthaz · March 19 2009, 07:11 PM

People need to stop taking simple entertainment so seriously.

ManOnTheWave · March 19 2009, 07:27 PM

I think Joss Whedon holds hands with George Lucas while they rape Asian cultures and childhoods, respectively.

Stone_Cold_Sisko · March 19 2009, 07:34 PM

I read the entire post and I don't see anything overly hostile there. In fact it was pretty restrained considering the nature of the complaint.

SinglePurpose · March 19 2009, 07:47 PM

Yeah, how come nobody's asian in the movies?

Rii · March 19 2009, 08:01 PM

The lack of asian actors on Firefly was a little odd considering the ostensible cultural context of the show, yeah.

I get that there’s all sorts of chinoiserie in Firefly because the idea is that in the Future where Firefly is set, China will be a great superpower and so will have cultural dominance.

No, the idea was that China was a great superpower, that China and the United States were the last bastions of human civilisation before Earth "went under".

March 19 2009, 05:27 PM	#1
Dusty Ayres Commodore Location: ANS Yamato, Sector 5, Sol System	Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation More bitching about Joss Whedon, this time about how he appropriates Asian culture to be used on Firefly and Dollhouse: [QUOTE]I don Last edited by Dusty Ayres; March 19 2009 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Got rid of title in quoted section

March 19 2009, 05:47 PM	#2
Borgminister Moderator Location: California	Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation Oops.

March 19 2009, 05:53 PM	#3
ManOnTheWave Rear Admiral Location: ManOnTheWave	Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation __________________ The falling leaf hates the wind.

March 19 2009, 06:00 PM	#5
Neroon Memory and awareness Location: On my ship the Rocinante, wheeling thru the galaxy	Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation Could be about his Sicilian supervisor...... __________________ “You break through the veil whenever you strap on a sword or chant the ancient verses. You escape when you write a poem or a tale that brings beauty into the world. You are set free whenever you love—even those who believe you’re crazy." ~ Jef Murray, 'Seer: A Wizard's Journal'

March 19 2009, 06:12 PM	#7
Admiral Buzzkill The Man Location: Defying Gravity	Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation Let the copyright holder on Asian culture sue through the courts. __________________ "I think [J.J. Abrams has] done a great thing for Star Trek. I’m very grateful to him. We all owe him a lot. When someone comes along like he has done and picks it up and elevates it, we should be grateful." - Leonard Nimoy

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

March 19 2009, 06:36 PM	#9
USS Mariner Rear Admiral Location: Homestate of Matt Jefferies	Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation ^Still can't see it. Link? EDIT: Thanks. __________________ Ignorance is forgivable, Arrogance is reprehensible, Narcissism is intolerable. *Subspace Commns Network* ~ Visit Marinina! Last edited by USS Mariner; March 19 2009 at 07:06 PM.

March 19 2009, 07:11 PM	#11
Kelthaz Commodore Location: Toronto, Ontario	Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation People need to stop taking simple entertainment so seriously. __________________ "Who are you?! And how did you get in here?!" "I'm the locksmith. And... I'm the locksmith."

March 19 2009, 07:27 PM	#12
ManOnTheWave Rear Admiral Location: ManOnTheWave	Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation I think Joss Whedon holds hands with George Lucas while they rape Asian cultures and childhoods, respectively. __________________ The falling leaf hates the wind.

March 19 2009, 07:34 PM	#13
Stone_Cold_Sisko Vice Admiral	Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation I read the entire post and I don't see anything overly hostile there. In fact it was pretty restrained considering the nature of the complaint.

March 19 2009, 07:47 PM	#14
SinglePurpose Lieutenant Commander	Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation Yeah, how come nobody's asian in the movies?