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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

View Poll Results: Grade the episode...
Excellent 300 71.94%
Above Average 59 14.15%
Average 20 4.80%
Below Average 19 4.56%
Poor 19 4.56%
Voters: 417. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old March 21 2009, 05:37 AM   #241
Kelso
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Warp Coil wrote: View Post
Meh. That's what I'm feeling right now. Lots of questions unanswered, which I figured. RDM pretty much said that everything wouldn't be tied up with a nice bow on it. But, IMO, there were TOO MANY unanswered questions left when the credits rolled. Given the overall lack of forward plot movement over the last two or three episodes, the writers could have taken the time to start answering things early since they obviously weren't going to have time to answer everything in the finale.

I feel a little bummed that the opera house visions we've been seeing since season one weren't more. I'm disappointed that no explanation was given for Starbuck's death and resurrection, why her father knew "All Along the Watchtower", how her Viper was re-created, what lay in the space between life and death, and who Starbuck was talking about when she told Apollo "they're waiting for me" shortly before her death in "Maelstrom". I mean, seriously.... NOTHING?!

The character moments at the end were nice. The scene where Starbuck and Apollo say goodbye to Adama and Roslin was beautiful. Starbuck disappearing into thin air was unexpected - but as mentioned above, I wanted more explanation before she left.

As for the ending, I guess I understand how it fits into the context of the series. But it isn't the ending I would have given it.

That was my gut feeling, as well... but it is rapidly passing.


Maybe I've been watching Star Trek for too long... but whenever a character mentions "God," I immediately assume that they are referring to a super-intelligent computer or an alien or a mysterious third party that is masquerading as a deity for it's own purposes, etc.

In fact, the third option is what I expected to happen on BSG. I kept waiting for some unexpected character to jump out and yell "I did it! Here's why..." but that never happened.

I actually prefer the ending we got. There really was a force in the universe that wanted to end the cycle of death. Great ending. I didn't see it coming.
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Old March 21 2009, 05:37 AM   #242
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Great series finale. Like many other fans, I wish this could of gone on longer. Say for another season at least. After reading some of the posts on here, I'm wondering why the writers didn't explain more about Starbuck. Just to leave her a complete mystery. I was kind of sad that Galactica had to be destroyed, along with the fleet. I was kind of hoping atleast another Battlestar had survived.
Was also happy to see the flashbacks to before everything happened. This show will surely be missed by me for sure.
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Old March 21 2009, 05:38 AM   #243
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

A "doesn't like to be called that"-damned travesty.

I voted below average only for the hour and twenty minutes before it went from awesome to suck in the time it took for Earth to rise over the moon.

I cannot believe people are buying this.

The good

Bitchin' space battle.

Aaron Doral gets a line! Seriously, I thought he'd been downgraded to extra pay.

The Opera House thing was done well.

However temporarily, Caprica and Baltar seeing their virtual twins was sweet.

The bad

Flashbacks of pointless if sometimes faintly (very faintly) interesting crap. Lee needs to learn to close his windows.

Athena shooting Boomer. Yeah, this is purely personal taste, but I wanted Boomer to live or at least go out a martyr--not executed without trial, not put down like a damned dog. Athena: murderer.

Tyrol gets a downgrade from poor decisionmaker to complete retard, surpassing his fuckup from a few weeks ago with a fuck up that dooms two civilizations to extinction. You couldn't have waited five minutes to kill her--you know, until the genocide was averted? And no one even gets mad at him for it? Tyrol: manslaughterer. And an idiot.

Unfortunately, an end to the cycle of violence was thrown away when Tyrol between Cavil-Cylons and the Humans and Rebel-Cylons was thrown away by Tyrol's inability to control himself. Dean Stockwell, as always, was great. I wanted Cavil to get his wish. He just wanted to grow and to evolve. It's not his fault he's trapped with the emotional capabilities of a precocious but disturbed child and in the filthy body of a human being. Cavil: suicide? (That was weird.)

Now, on to the Cylon home-colony, which is apparently many hundreds of cubic kilometers in volume and possibly larger... and it's broken into bits by the nukes from one Raptor? And if it really is that easy, why didn't the Rebel Cylons do it a year ago? Racetrack: perpetrator of genocide.

The Ugly

The "angels" turn out to be angels.

"God" turns out to be God.

The visions turn out to be visions.

Hera turns out to be a... little girl?

And Starbuck turns out to not be real. Despite the fact she's able to kill people and shoot Centurions and...

and...

Now let's hold it right here. A figment of everyone's imagination shot people during the mutiny, shot Centurions on the Cylon colony, can lift stuff... now there's a reason solipsism isn't really viable as a concept. The reason is that in when what you see and what reality is don't match up, you die. If I try to walk down a flight of stairs and all I see is a level floor, I fall down each step and break my neck on the bottom. If I am in a firefight, and the person next to me is not real, and I am only taking it on faith that what she is killing is actually dead, I am going to be perforated the first time I turn my back on a corpse that is actually alive.

But I guess in BSG fake bullets make real holes, because they're the will of God. Too bad God, who can interact physically with the real world, thought it would be awesome to watch billions die. Great guy, God.

So, after they destroy civilization, it turns out All Along the Watchtower is... coordinates. For Earth. Sent by...

Right, sent by God.

And the ending? I mean, the establishment of the humans on Earth... with the humans of Earth... I liked it better when it was called Restaurant at the End of the Universe but that's because that book was a Goddamn comedy and not a pretentious science fiction drama too full of itself to answer its own questions.

Real answers, not answers that boil down to "because it is" (or rather, because "I am because I am").

And finally, and this is where I was truly lost here, because everything else I might have stomached:

Lee Adama, the snake in the garden of Eden. But this time, the snake says "Don't eat from the tree of knowledge, it's not good for you."

Here's a man who thinks it's a good idea to not build a city, to abandon technology, to start humanity afresh... and that we know for a fact, because it is our Earth, consigns hundreds of billions of human progeny to squalor, misery, pestilence, and holocaust. Lee Adama creates Genghis Khan, Hitler, Stalin, Mao. Lee Adama has the opportunity to build Heaven and casts the human race and all its children into a Hell that they'll dig themselves out of only in time to build its first Cylons... and they won't know that their days are numbered if they make the mistake of treating them as slaves, because Lee Adama in his infinite fucking wisdom destroyed history.

And thirty thousand people go along with this? Really?

Let's jut leave aside the fact of how this is different from New Caprica... I guess every basestar in the Cylon fleet has been destroyed... because God willed it or something.

Whatever.

This finale, I'm truly--truly--sorry to say it, sucked. It is the BSG finale we might have expected if Ronald Moore had said, "I'm out of ideas"--and handed it to Brannon Braga. You know, I take that back.

It's insulting to Brannon Braga.
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Old March 21 2009, 05:39 AM   #244
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

steveman wrote: View Post
Would have been interesting if we had seen Bulldog sometime over the course of the finale/battle. Would've been a nice callback to "Hero."
Maybe he died...
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Old March 21 2009, 05:39 AM   #245
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

nx1701g wrote: View Post
Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Star Trek is a terrible depiction of science.
I knew that was coming.
So did I somehow.
It is the logical response, sir.
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Old March 21 2009, 05:40 AM   #246
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Skywalker wrote: View Post
steveman wrote: View Post
Would have been interesting if we had seen Bulldog sometime over the course of the finale/battle. Would've been a nice callback to "Hero."
Yeah, there's another one! Dude never showed up again. The fleet needed as many pilots as it could get, and Bulldog spent enough time with the Cylons to have some understanding of them.
Yup. It would've made a lot of sense to have seen him at some point during the first hour of "Daybreak, Part II." Kind of disappointed we didn't. The Galactica writers are usually great at working those kinds of things in.

I mean, it's forgivable, though. Moore and Co. had a ton on their collective plate. And maybe the actor just wasn't available.
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Old March 21 2009, 05:46 AM   #247
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

I assume Bulldog didn't come back because was a credited guest star who probably earned more money than most of the other co-stars (delegated to the end credits). Moreover, the original plan was to make him a recurring character, but a deal apparently wasn't reached with Carl Lumbly.
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Old March 21 2009, 05:48 AM   #248
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

^ Ah. Well, that's understandable. Nature of the business, and all that.
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Old March 21 2009, 05:51 AM   #249
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
I assume Bulldog didn't come back because was a credited guest star who probably earned more money than most of the other co-stars (delegated to the end credits). Moreover, the original plan was to make him a recurring character, but a deal apparently wasn't reached with Carl Lumbly.
Gotcha. That's too bad.
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Old March 21 2009, 05:53 AM   #250
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

steveman wrote: View Post
Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
I assume Bulldog didn't come back because was a credited guest star who probably earned more money than most of the other co-stars (delegated to the end credits). Moreover, the original plan was to make him a recurring character, but a deal apparently wasn't reached with Carl Lumbly.
Gotcha. That's too bad.
Honestly, I'm more disappointed that the character didn't' come back in season three than his absence here. There was a real chance to create a new dynamic for Tigh, Adama, and Bulldog, but that opportunity was lost. Instead, we can just assume Bulldog died, perhaps of age, in the fleet. Might be an interesting tie-in novel with that, actually.
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Old March 21 2009, 05:54 AM   #251
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Kelso wrote: View Post
Warp Coil wrote: View Post
Meh. That's what I'm feeling right now. Lots of questions unanswered, which I figured. RDM pretty much said that everything wouldn't be tied up with a nice bow on it. But, IMO, there were TOO MANY unanswered questions left when the credits rolled. Given the overall lack of forward plot movement over the last two or three episodes, the writers could have taken the time to start answering things early since they obviously weren't going to have time to answer everything in the finale.

I feel a little bummed that the opera house visions we've been seeing since season one weren't more. I'm disappointed that no explanation was given for Starbuck's death and resurrection, why her father knew "All Along the Watchtower", how her Viper was re-created, what lay in the space between life and death, and who Starbuck was talking about when she told Apollo "they're waiting for me" shortly before her death in "Maelstrom". I mean, seriously.... NOTHING?!

The character moments at the end were nice. The scene where Starbuck and Apollo say goodbye to Adama and Roslin was beautiful. Starbuck disappearing into thin air was unexpected - but as mentioned above, I wanted more explanation before she left.

As for the ending, I guess I understand how it fits into the context of the series. But it isn't the ending I would have given it.

That was my gut feeling, as well... but it is rapidly passing.


Maybe I've been watching Star Trek for too long... but whenever a character mentions "God," I immediately assume that they are referring to a super-intelligent computer or an alien or a mysterious third party that is masquerading as a deity for it's own purposes, etc.

In fact, the third option is what I expected to happen on BSG. I kept waiting for some unexpected character to jump out and yell "I did it! Here's why..." but that never happened.

I actually prefer the ending we got. There really was a force in the universe that wanted to end the cycle of death. Great ending. I didn't see it coming.
I'm happy that you enjoyed the ending. The only problem with this line of thinking is that if there is a force in the universe who wants to end the cycle of death - why doesn't this magical force just end it? This force or God has obviously a ton of power but it chooses to work its magic through moving little pieces around on a gameboard - well then it must not want to end the cycle of death that badly, huh?
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Old March 21 2009, 05:54 AM   #252
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Right after Dualla's suicide it struck me that BSG suffers from a bit of the "women in refrigerators" syndrome, yeah.
"Women in toasters" on this show.

Originally Posted by Robert Maxwell

I think that's a little unfair. "The Chase" is an insult to real science. "Daybreak," at least, may be walking the line, but it isn't outright offensive like "The Chase" was.
So a human/artificial-human hybird from a seperately evolved human race, conceived through the key ingredient of love by the manipulations of a higher power is not an outright offensive insult to real science?

BTW, no NuBSG can ever bash Star Trek's "The Omega Glory" again. The Cold War happened once, it will happen again!
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Old March 21 2009, 05:58 AM   #253
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
steveman wrote: View Post
Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
I assume Bulldog didn't come back because was a credited guest star who probably earned more money than most of the other co-stars (delegated to the end credits). Moreover, the original plan was to make him a recurring character, but a deal apparently wasn't reached with Carl Lumbly.
Gotcha. That's too bad.
Honestly, I'm more disappointed that the character didn't' come back in season three than his absence here. There was a real chance to create a new dynamic for Tigh, Adama, and Bulldog, but that opportunity was lost. Instead, we can just assume Bulldog died, perhaps of age, in the fleet. Might be an interesting tie-in novel with that, actually.
He certainly had the potential to be an interesting character. That they didn't bring the character back/couldn't work out some sort of deal with Carl Lumbly really makes "Hero" seem a little superfluous. It looked like they were going somewhere with that character/episode. But then they didn't.
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Old March 21 2009, 05:58 AM   #254
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Chess Piece Face wrote: View Post
The only problem with this line of thinking is that if there is a force in the universe who wants to end the cycle of death - why doesn't this magical force just end it?

Well, perhaps I should have said that it wanted the humans and cylons to end the cycle.
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Old March 21 2009, 05:58 AM   #255
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Re: Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Think about this, what would our Earth have been called if the Colonials didn't interfere with our culture? How would we have advanced?
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