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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

View Poll Results: Do you care about the plot?
Yes - I couldn't care less about the characters. 5 6.85%
Yes - because it is at least one half of a successful formula for a well written show. 53 72.60%
No, plot means ZILCH without good characters 11 15.07%
No, I could watch 45 minutes of Starbuck noodling on the piano every week 4 5.48%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old March 18 2009, 03:36 AM   #31
-Brett-
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

Chess Piece Face wrote: View Post
In the Last Frakkin Special, Ron Moore stated:

"Who cares what the plot is? Why are we spinning our wheels with plot?"
When I saw the thread title, I was about to chime in with "obviously not Ron Moore".

Seems kinda redundant now.

Damn that man's a hack.
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Old March 18 2009, 03:40 AM   #32
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

Do I care about the plot of a story? Yes.

Am I concerned about Ron Moore's comments? No. It's likely an exaggeration or used for motivation.


Am I satisfied with season 4.5? Yes. I have been able to relate to aspects of some characters in some sense, I see struggles that are understandable for each characters situation, I'm fascinated in how they differently perceive what's going on around them, and more accurately what's thrown at them.

Was season 4.5 without faults? No. I think given some of the filler elements, I would have liked one more episode regarding the mutiny replacing an hours worth of elements in the last 4 shows or so.




Am I scared the season finale will disappoint me regarding the overall plot of the story? Yes, slightly. As someone else said, I want to see a conclusion for the individual character stories. I do want an epic feel and nice special effects. I do want some conclusion to certain parts of the plot.

But everything does not need to be gift wrapped regarding the plot in order for me to be happy. I would like a more concrete explanation about the "Six in Baltar's head" story. I'm cool with "the plan" being Cavil's plan of revenge against the five. I'm cool with Starbuck being another Human/Cylon, which is what the story wants you to believe at this point... and I don't necessarily need it discussed in detail for the finale. However, her "harbinger of death" plot line does need to be covered.



The one thing that does really scare me, I liked DS9, and it was overall a good story, but the finale didn't quite deliver in some regards- particularly Sisko/Dukat and the prophets plotline.

So I hope BSG will be better pay-off than that.

Overall, with its flaws and everything, it is most likely my favorite television series in history of any genre. And one of very few where I actually care about the characters.
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Old March 18 2009, 03:49 AM   #33
SJSharksfan39
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
No.

I care about story and characters. Plot is not story, and is a great deal less important to the enduring value of almost any piece of fiction than the first two, IMAO.

I will be mildly disappointed if we don't discover Hera's importance. I will be massively disappointed if Gaius Baltar's story has an unsatisfying, truncated ending.
What? Plot is not story? Since when? I'm surprised to hear you say something like that, given you wrote a few stories for TNG.

If Plot is not story, than what is it?
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Old March 18 2009, 03:51 AM   #34
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

^^^ Don't sweat it. I checked an actual dictionary, rather than pulling it out of where the sun don't shine, and it confirmed that they are one and the same.
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Old March 18 2009, 03:52 AM   #35
Alex1939
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
What? Plot is not story? Since when? I'm surprised to hear you say something like that, given you wrote a few stories for TNG.

If Plot is not story, than what is it?

I'm pretty sure it's something like this:

The BSG Plot is cylons destroyed human colonies, and are now hunting down the survivors in space.

The story is watching Starbuck play piano, having visions of her father, and realizing she is a halfbreed.
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Old March 18 2009, 03:53 AM   #36
SJSharksfan39
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
tomalak301 wrote: View Post
What? Plot is not story? Since when? I'm surprised to hear you say something like that, given you wrote a few stories for TNG.

If Plot is not story, than what is it?

I'm pretty sure it's something like this:

The BSG Plot is cylons destroyed human colonies, and are now hunting down the survivors in space.

The story is watching Starbuck play piano, having visions of her father, and realizing she is a halfbreed.
And right now, that is a pretty crappy story but that's just in my opinion.
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Old March 18 2009, 04:11 AM   #37
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
^^^ Don't sweat it. I checked an actual dictionary, rather than pulling it out of where the sun don't shine, and it confirmed that they are one and the same.
If you bothered to look at the King quote from the other page you'd see an explanation.
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Old March 18 2009, 04:13 AM   #38
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
^^^ Don't sweat it. I checked an actual dictionary, rather than pulling it out of where the sun don't shine, and it confirmed that they are one and the same.
Gee, an actual dictionary! that must settle it, huh? Someone better alert Stephen King.

Or...someone should get a better dictionary and do something more than superficial "research" into the various meanings of the terms and their usage.

Now, one simple way to understand the distinction is with a story like "The Little Tailor."

The story is: a young man of modest accomplishment is mistaken for a hero, grows into that role and finds true love.

The plot is:

1) A tailor is annoyed by flies while eating a sandwich. He swats them. He discovers that he's killed seven flies with a single swat.

2) So impressed is he by this accomplishment, he embroiders a shirt to read "Seven At One Blow" (yeah, I know, what can I say, colloquial usage changes)...

3) The tailor sets out on a journey...


And so on and so on. Plot involves the specific events of a story, their order and relationship.

There are, needless to say, thousands upon thousands of books, movies, plays etc telling the same very few stories but with differing characters and a great variety of specific plots.

I suppose I should provide something like a citation to counterbalance Mr. Awe's (vague and unspecified but apparently final and authoritative) dictionary, so here's a simple one for starts:


http://fictionwriting.about.com/od/glossary/g/plot.htm

The main storyline of the nuBSG series is that of the survivors of the destruction of the Colonies searching for a new home while struggling to survive and to hold on to what they value in their civilization. Those values are continually challenged and often found wanting. The various characters have their own individual stories within that story, and those stories are deeply a part of who the characters are - the plots are a great deal less so.

Last edited by Admiral Buzzkill; March 18 2009 at 04:44 AM.
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Old March 18 2009, 04:40 AM   #39
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

I thought that quote snippet came out of Ron's frustrations while plotting out the final battle sequence and subsequent revelation that he was doing it wrong. Am I misremembering?


Does anyone have the full quote handy?
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Old March 18 2009, 04:54 AM   #40
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

Kelso wrote: View Post
I thought that quote snippet came out of Ron's frustrations while plotting out the final battle sequence and subsequent revelation that he was doing it wrong. Am I misremembering?


Does anyone have the full quote handy?
No, you're correct. It's just more fun to baselessly bash him than to bother to understand what he was referring to.
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Old March 18 2009, 05:48 AM   #41
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

I'm not quite ready to join the (increasing?) ranks of Ron Moore bashers (or are they all just suddenly coming out of the woodwork?) but I *AM* worried about the finale myself - worried it's NOT going to pay off after all, like many of us expected it would.

And I don't feel that was "just" based on that single comment by RDM - but it's based on that comment in light of how disappointed I have been with the final 5 - 6 episodes so far.

I wasn't necessarily expecting all the answers yet myself - but I was at least expecting the writer's would *need too* use every bit of the precious little time they had left in these final few episodes, to finally start resolving all the questions & mysteries left unanswered and to finally start bringing together all the various plot threads and building up to the finale (and ramping up the tension) but instead...we have gotten *nowhere*!!!

It's starting to make me very worried that RDM has actually just run out of ideas at this point and has NO IDEA how to effectivly resolve this story so he's just *coasting* and hoping we'll all think he's just intentionally making some daring artistic statement about the purposelessness of existence!

(As if nihilism in art is anything original...)

I keep *hoping* that in the end all of this will FINALLY pay off and it will make some sense - maybe in hindsight it *will* seem like a brilliant creative choice by RDM to make us feel just as hopeless as the Colonials & allied Cylons feel at this point....and not just the result of

but I'm losing faith in that with each remaining episode.
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Old March 18 2009, 06:12 AM   #42
Mr Awe
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

sidious618 wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post
^^^ Don't sweat it. I checked an actual dictionary, rather than pulling it out of where the sun don't shine, and it confirmed that they are one and the same.
If you bothered to look at the King quote from the other page you'd see an explanation.
I've read the definitions in the dictionary. That's good enough for me! That's the common usage of them too. People use the interchangeably.

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Old March 18 2009, 06:16 AM   #43
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
I've read the definitions in the dictionary. That's good enough for me! That's the common usage of them too. People use the interchangeably.

Mr Awe
People who aren't writers do. People who are writers use the terms differently and Ron is a writer. Put it together.
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Old March 18 2009, 08:13 AM   #44
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

Plot = the sequence of events that happen in the story
Theme = What the story is about

Most of what people describe as "plotless" is actually "themeless". As long as there are a series of events in the story, it has a plot. If those scenes in that plot don't explore or illustrate some theme, it's pointless. So, no matter what the sequence of events in the Galactica finale, it'll have a plot, but what matters is the resolution of the themes and characters. Not that A happens before B.
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Old March 18 2009, 02:01 PM   #45
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Re: "Who cares what the plot is?"

I definitely care what the plot is. The characters come first but without a plot, they do a lot of aimless things, and that's what they've been doing forever on BSG. I stopped caring about these characters a long time ago. The emotional hold that the series had in its early years, has long since faded away.

I have watched every episode to see what would happen. Unfortunately, a lot has happened that has been totally incomprehensible.

There has to be some sort of linear progression to the story. I truly hope Moore doesn't end the series with a deus ex maxima. That would really, really suck.

I do find making Tigh one of the final five absolutely ridiculous. It's ironic, sure, but also completely unbelievable. It begs the question: why don't the cylons know who they are? Even the skinjobs are still machines so their physiology cannot be completely human. There should have been some kind of sign during their lifetimes, such as a medical exam? The concept as presented just doesn't work for me.
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