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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

View Poll Results: Grade the episode...
Excellent 69 35.03%
Above Average 59 29.95%
Average 47 23.86%
Below Average 13 6.60%
Poor 9 4.57%
Voters: 197. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old March 14 2009, 05:55 PM   #106
Gregsmack
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

My point-by-point mini review:

- I quite enjoyed the Caprica scenes. Gaius's struggles with his father were particularly compelling, and Lee's scene after his drunken night was tragic in its foreshadowing. I don't yet know what these scenes are supposed to mean yet, but that is what next week is for. (Adama's quick scene intrigues me specifically)

- Anders is great. I said in a previous thread that RDM and crew's treatment of Anders has been particularly cruel. Quote me:

Remember back in 'Road Less Traveled' when Leoben and Anders had their confrontation over being more than what you are? What if Anders' current state is how the writers are planning to leave him. It's a very disturbing outcome for a character who says things like, "I can't believe Pyramidball used to actually matter to me."
His sports interview scene might have been the best of the Caprica scenes. It seems like the writers are indeed leaving Anders to this fate. I personally find it rather disturbing. (I also laugh at the thought of Derek Jeter or Kobe Bryant ever answering a question like that)

- Roslin looked particularly frail in this one. She really looks like she's on her last legs. I imagine that with Adama telling Cottle not to come along (a great moment, btw) we're not going to get the same death scene as shown in 'The Hub'.

- The red line. A great moment that not only highlighted the stakes of this mission but showed one last time the cowardice and selfishness of Gaius Baltar. Lee's scene with him in the back room was excellent leading up to this. (One also gets the sense that one season ago Lee would have taken the man's hand -- kid's come a long way).

- Athena and Helo's despair. Subtle yet powerful. The implications of this are potentially horrifying. What if Hera has already been dissected (although I doubt she has)? I get the sense that if Athena sees Boomer (even if Boomer has her foreshadowed change of heart and rescues Hera) she will just pop her. She did Natalie just for TALKING to Hera. Helo's conversation with Tyrol is interesting for both characters and, again, the implications over who may be right are disturbing.

- Hot Dog's scene with Adama. Might be the best scene of the episode and the best example in the series of just what these people have all lost. The anonymous pictures remaining on the memorial wall because those who put them up are themselves probably long dead is both sombre and sincerely gutwrenching. This isn't just death-- this is being completely forgotten.

- I can't wait for part 2. This series is ending on a much quieter note than anyone would have thought and it has slowly become my opinion that it is pitch perfect. (However, I am reserving my final drops of judgment for after I see DB2).
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Old March 14 2009, 05:59 PM   #107
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Am I the only one who has noticed an odd lack of Centurions around Hera? I'm wondering if that's intentional of if they're just trying to save money on CG. It would have been fun to have a scene where the Classic Centurions explain that they're not down with the kidnapping.
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Old March 14 2009, 06:01 PM   #108
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

shivkala wrote: View Post
Garibaldi O'brien wrote: View Post
Jesus! Caprica's pitty on Baltar's father was heart renching. "your father is a very complicated man, but there are a few simple things that make him happy. The last time I saw him he seemed happy,"
It was definitly a nice contrast with her scene in the mini-series with the baby (which I always saw as her doing a "mercy killing," making it quick compared to a potentially drawn out death from radiation). She seems to take pity on individuals, while at the same time, planning genocide.
I guess I must of the been the only one that through that Six was telling porkies and that Baltar Snr (oh and ha ha @ his name being Julius was in a shallow grave somewhere or my other thought was maybe Baltar knocked the old guy off but then we've seen that he lacks the stones for that even when pushed.
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Old March 14 2009, 06:03 PM   #109
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Killer Koinek wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
See, I don't think we'll even get that. I would be surprised. My line of thinking is more like Yassim's. Some viewers watch this show hoping for revelations and answers, and missed that this show has never been about those things. It's always been about the questions, and how grappling with them affects the characters. Starbuck's resurrection thread doesn't exist merely as something to tie into the larger story. It's there for her to agonize over and deal with and realize it just doesn't matter.
See, I think that is RDM's justification for what's turned into a poor story. The theory flies in the face of all the SciFi publicity, the whole point of the last meal photo and the way the intros are/used to be (the opener with boomer/athena, final five, the quick 10 sec. action previews). The style was created to leave the audience on the edge waiting for answers.

It's honestly why so many of us (at least in my group of friends) got hooked the show. It genuinely left you wondering what the hell was really going on.

I think RDM began to write himself into corners, making a huge plot points that he couldn't conceivably take anywhere. So, he just started resolving them with little to no explanation. Hera almost went away in that manner before she was rescued by the finale story.
It does seem like there's been a disparity between what RDM wanted to get out of the show and what Skiffy and their publicity department wanted to do.

I don't think they can't answer these questions, though. How difficult would it be to have a Ship of Lights appear, tell everyone what's going on, that they brought Starbuck back so they'd go to Earth and ally with the rebel Cylons, so they could have a future together? But that would be boring. It's the scenario we've analyzed to death. What other options are there for an interesting conclusion? People want answers but I think any answers we get just won't be as satisfying as we've built them up to be.

Take for example Lee Adama's political career and his recent decision to don the uniform again. What the hell? One minute he's the saviour of the quorum and the next he's back in the uniform without so much as blinking?
That's always been one of his character traits--loyalty to his father. As much as he's "grown up" on this show and found his own path, at the end of the day, he can't let his father go alone on a suicide mission.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
shivkala wrote: View Post
It was definitly a nice contrast with her scene in the mini-series with the baby (which I always saw as her doing a "mercy killing," making it quick compared to a potentially drawn out death from radiation). She seems to take pity on individuals, while at the same time, planning genocide.
I'm not too fond of her "redemption by retcon."

The stuff with Baltar's father was good, it just felt to me like she was shoehorned into it to make a point about who she is.
Unless she snapped his neck too. *dun-dun-dunnnn* O__O

I think what the story was going for is to show how she managed to get under his skin and become more than just another girl he screwed.[/quote]

Yeah, you are probably right. If I were him, though, I'd be creeped the fuck out. You're nailing this hot chick, treat her like crap, she knows you're screwing other people, and she doesn't care and sticks around? If it were me, I'd think "damaged goods, stay the hell away," because people just don't act like that unless they're crazy in love or just plain crazy.
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Old March 14 2009, 06:09 PM   #110
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

don't think it's been mentioned - but anyone else pick up the instruction to leave a launch tube intact so Adama can fly the last viper of Galactica.

An intention before he decided to hunt for Hera or something up his sleeve?
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Old March 14 2009, 06:10 PM   #111
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Yeah, you are probably right. If I were him, though, I'd be creeped the fuck out. You're nailing this hot chick, treat her like crap, she knows you're screwing other people, and she doesn't care and sticks around? If it were me, I'd think "damaged goods, stay the hell away," because people just don't act like that unless they're crazy in love or just plain crazy.
Was he actually nailing her at this point? I assumed that they barely knew each other still (him not knowing her name and all). I don't think what she did for Julius was particularly damaged-goods-y. Very, very unusual, yes, but not damaged goods. She did accidentally witness something between Gaius and Julius that I'm sure none of the other conquests has. From Gaius's point of view, she did it more for his father than for him (although knowing what comes of all this makes it rather cruel).
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Old March 14 2009, 06:14 PM   #112
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Marc wrote: View Post
don't think it's been mentioned - but anyone else pick up the instruction to leave a launch tube intact so Adama can fly the last viper of Galactica.

An intention before he decided to hunt for Hera or something up his sleeve?
Sounded very deliberate. RDM doesn't have much time to be subtle - he had both Lee and Tigh load that dramatic gun and put it in a drawer...
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Old March 14 2009, 06:15 PM   #113
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Caprica flashbacks: excellent. Galactica stuff: meh. I'm surprised part 2 hasn't been leaked yet, Ron Moore must sleep with the only copy under his pillow.
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Old March 14 2009, 06:15 PM   #114
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Did anyone noice that when Baltar was with his father and he said, "I need this like I need a frakking hole in the head" James Callis quite clearly said, "...a fucking hole in the head."
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Old March 14 2009, 06:29 PM   #115
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

^

That's not the first time he's done that. Just something in his delivery of that word that blurs it significantly, I guess.
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Old March 14 2009, 07:10 PM   #116
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Brent wrote: View Post
So, that was Part 1 of a 3 parter. Typically Part 1 of any To Be Continued... is going to be slow, as they build up to stuff, so I can forgive the slowness of the episode.
I give this episode an Average. I expect next week will get an Excellent.
No, it doesn't have to be like that. Part 1 does not have to be tedious. I grow tired of this seeming acceptance of the idea that setup has to be and will be tedious. People are learning to settle for less.
I agree. Set-up need not be slow or boring especially at this stage. Now I will admit sometimes transitioning from one season long arc to a new one at the beginning of a new season can be a little tedious as the series reorients and you come off of the high of an exciting climatic stretch the previous spring and now the writers are trying to get a new arc up and running but in the resolution phase where BSG has been for at least these past few weeks we should have been treated to much stronger hours.

The writers of the better shows plot out an arc for the season--deciding what elements, threads and characters will be its focus and gradually they begin seeding the first few episodes with those aspects. Then they use that scaffolding and begin developing them in interesting ways constantly building on what came before with plenty of plot exposition, advancement, complications, new interesting character dynamics along with a conscious effort to have each episode raise the bar and up the ante in order to contribute to a continuously mounting tension that explodes at the end. In my opinion, BSG has failed in doing that.

Baltar and his cult, the Final Five and any number of other threads have just been poorly handled. The show has basically been a stitched together patchwork of isolated character moments mainly centering on Adama and Roslin and to a lesser extent with Starbuck. Then the other characters get a bone tossed to them and usually it isn't very interesting. Elements are introduced in one episode and are never heard from again. Whether it is due to them being cut off of later episodes or the writers, for whatever reason, deciding they didn't pan out I don't know but the show in my opinion is just not well structured.

I know people might be growing tired of me constantly bringing up Lost but it is the first thing that comes to mind when needing to provide an example of what I'm talking about when it comes to handling set-up in an interesting effective manner. Its finales usually are comprised of three episodes--one one hour episode followed the next week by a two hour episode. Lost builds from the previous episode and consistently holds the viewers attention. Heck, you can even look back to season one of BSG for another example. Compare the tightly written and focused interesting arc of the show's freshman year to what we've gotten last year or this year.

Effective set-up should hold your attention and make you excited for the next installment.
Carlito wrote: View Post
How comer this thread is always dominated by the same three people who voted "average" when the poll shows more people voted "above average" and even MORE people voted "excellent"?
Maybe because it is a discussion thread and those of us who have found the show middling choose to actually articulate in detail what our problems are with the episodes as opposed to voting in a poll but not posting why they voted "excellent".

Trust me, I'm not that hard to please and if BSG was knocking my socks off most weeks I would go on and on about everything I enjoyed about it. Instead, most weeks lately I struggle to find something I liked about it. Sadly its weaknesses are more pronounced.
Yassim wrote: View Post
A few things -

- anybody still watching to "get the answers to the questions" should get out now. That's never been the point, and you will howl when the final credits roll, and you still don't know who the HeadPeople are/who the Cylon God is/who wrote The Watchtower/why Tigh's eyepatch is pink etc etc etc. It's been clear for a while that some of the mysteries will linger. Either you can live with that or you can't. Decide now.
In an interview Moore said that all of those questions--minus Tighe's eye patch being pink--will be answered. The question though will they be answered satisfactorily. I suspect yes if "No Exit" was any indication.
- and if the show weren't wrapping up, I'd be annoyed that Anders can find the Cylon colony... if you ask him. I guess Adama told him there were only two hourse left.
I don't see a problem. Anders really didn't provide the colony's location. It was the third party imparting it to Anders because they want the colonials there to save Hera(much like how the hybrid in season three told Baltar and D'Anna to go to the algae planet just as Galactica arrived to witness shortly afterwards the supernova) and for some unknown reason--most likely their big revealing of themselves to the Cylons and humans at the last minute in some big deus ex machina where they stop the fight before both sides are annihilated. Afterall Anders in "No Exit" said something about a miracle in the fleet.
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Old March 14 2009, 07:22 PM   #117
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

I echo the comments of others in my praise of the Caprica scenes. Wasn't it striking to see how far they've all come? It was heartbreaking, really. Take Roslin for instance. We see her in a state of carefree bliss with her sisters... knowing the whole time that she will eventually find herself flying through deep space aboard a decrepit Battlestar, romantically involved with the commander of said Battlestar, and dying of cancer.

Wow.

The scene showing her putting on her wig, shot from the back of her head (which was hard to watch, by the way), really epitomized just how far they've all come from that life. I mean, we go from seeing Roslin healthy and beautiful to sickly and frial; that was tough. It makes you realize how nothing on BSG was ever supposed to happen. Everyone was just supposed to go on living their lives.

But it's painfully clear how the Cylon attack changed all that. Seeing the dichotomy of pre-attack and post-attack scenes hammered home for me the devestation of the attack more poignantly and more succinctly than the shots of mushroom clouds and destruction from the mini ever did. It's all about the characters and how their lives have changed. And this episode really makes you appreciate the journey we've all gone on with these characters for the last four years.
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Old March 14 2009, 07:23 PM   #118
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Carlito wrote: View Post
How comer this thread is always dominated by the same three people who voted "average" when the poll shows more people voted "above average" and even MORE people voted "excellent"?
Don't you know anything about the internet? The more you hate something, the more time you spend thinking and posting about it than even the biggest fans. The biggest BSG hater here, who likes to keep watching anyway just to bitch about how right he is, probably wrote the longest posting I've ever seen here in an episode thread a while back.
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Old March 14 2009, 07:29 PM   #119
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

10 minutes in, I thought 'Ok, Daylight Part 1 = Caprica flashbacks, and I'm fine with that'. Part of me was actually disappointed that the story returned to 'Present Day' on Galactica because I enjoyed seeing the likes of Adama, Roslin, Six and Baltar before The Fall.

Good, quiet episode. All setup, but good setup. And Adama telling Kara that "your my daughter" brought tears to my eyes.

Not too fussed now if every question is left unanswered. I don't think nBSG is about the questions, its about how the characters deal, or fail, to deal with the questions.....and the answers too if their available.
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Old March 14 2009, 07:29 PM   #120
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

I'll give this one an above average. I expect the excellent material will come in the form of next week's episode, although from the awkward "to be continued" at the end of this one it's pretty obvious "Daybreak" is meant to be watched as one entire block.

I loved the flashbacks to Caprica, which showed us more of Baltar's backstory that has been alluded to over the years (especially in "Dirty Hands"), and gave lip service to the longstanding joke that Baltar never knew Caprica's name. It was nice to see Zak, and Starbuck, and Apollo all together (they even brought back the actor who played Zak in season one), too. These scenes really work to show how far these characters have come in four seasons.

The scene in the hanger bay was effective. Thankfully, everybody didn't elect to go on the suicide mission, although I do have to wonder where Adama managed to score that convenient roll of gaffer's tape.

I really don't want to comment any more, because I'll have a lot more to say when watching this first hour in conjunction with the next two in a week. But I'm looking forward to it.
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