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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

View Poll Results: Grade the episode...
Excellent 69 35.03%
Above Average 59 29.95%
Average 47 23.86%
Below Average 13 6.60%
Poor 9 4.57%
Voters: 197. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old March 14 2009, 04:26 PM   #91
Koinek
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Average although I really should have voted Poor. The actual relevant content of this episode comprised about 15-20 minutes. That's how long this whole thing should have been.

The flashbacks only proved what I knew already. TPTB (RDM) have forgotted where the characters came from (and for that matter where their fans came from). Watch the flashback Baltar-6 scenes with the ones from the miniseries. There is such a difference in tone and chemistry. They just ruined the memory of the miniseries for me.

The more this season goes on, the more I just want to get it over with. It's obvious that TPTB got a more and more magnum-opus-y through the show's run and gradually forgot that they need to provide a bit of actual excitement as opposed to drama.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I don't think the next episode is going to tell us what Starbuck is. This episode basically sealed it for me. They aren't going to explain it because it doesn't matter.
We know it already. Dreilide was Number 7. That's the big difference between the early seasons and now. S1 and S2 left you grasping at clues, desperately guessing what the hell was going on. It was actually fun and exciting. Now, every clue has the subtlety of a sledgehammer and we're just waiting to be put out of our misery by seeing it on screen.
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Old March 14 2009, 04:29 PM   #92
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Killer Koinek wrote: View Post

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I don't think the next episode is going to tell us what Starbuck is. This episode basically sealed it for me. They aren't going to explain it because it doesn't matter.
We know it already. Dreilide was Number 7. That's the big difference between the early seasons and now. S1 and S2 left you grasping at clues, desperately guessing what the hell was going on. It was actually fun and exciting. Now, every clue has the subtlety of a sledgehammer and we're just waiting to be put out of our misery by seeing it on screen.
Right, but just having that hung in front of us doesn't give any particulars on how she actually came back. She won't find out, and neither will we.
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Old March 14 2009, 04:34 PM   #93
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

^Oh ok. Yea, I can get that. Actually I think we'll get some through-away one liner that wraps it all up in the middle of a 10 minute conversation. The script and director won't pause for it. Then the whole episode will move on and nothing will have changed.
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Old March 14 2009, 04:37 PM   #94
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

A few things -

- anybody still watching to "get the answers to the questions" should get out now. That's never been the point, and you will howl when the final credits roll, and you still don't know who the HeadPeople are/who the Cylon God is/who wrote The Watchtower/why Tigh's eyepatch is pink etc etc etc. It's been clear for a while that some of the mysteries will linger. Either you can live with that or you can't. Decide now.

- Anyone else getting a "All Good Things..." vibe? Look, it's the first season! Again!

- I liked most of the Caprica stuff, but I missed the point of the Will Adama scene? What was he protesting?

- Doesn't a bird in the house signal a death in the family? Was that the point of the drunk Lee scene?

- Crusty old Tigh continues to radiate awesome in even the most casual scenes.

- Adama's final speech was alright, but not as awesome as some - too bad he doesn't finish on his highest note.

- the huge conflict over Hera seems a little forced - really? we're all signing up because we want to save Helo's little girl? This needed a little more than Adama picking the photo off the wall. Maybe because he's thinking about Zac? Maybe because he wants to die with his ship? I think this needs a little more explaining.

- and if the show weren't wrapping up, I'd be annoyed that Anders can find the Cylon colony... if you ask him. I guess Adama told him there were only two hourse left.

Still, it gave me shivers at times, to think it's all going to be over soon. Good episode.
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Old March 14 2009, 04:45 PM   #95
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

I gave it an excellent , not for the episode cause it really not gonna be over til the next 2 hrs...I see Daybreak as all one episode.

I gave it an excellent for the 'Old Man'.

Almost for this line alone "I know what you are...you are my daughter"

Nuff said for me

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Old March 14 2009, 04:50 PM   #96
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Killer Koinek wrote: View Post
^Oh ok. Yea, I can get that. Actually I think we'll get some through-away one liner that wraps it all up in the middle of a 10 minute conversation. The script and director won't pause for it. Then the whole episode will move on and nothing will have changed.
See, I don't think we'll even get that. I would be surprised. My line of thinking is more like Yassim's. Some viewers watch this show hoping for revelations and answers, and missed that this show has never been about those things. It's always been about the questions, and how grappling with them affects the characters. Starbuck's resurrection thread doesn't exist merely as something to tie into the larger story. It's there for her to agonize over and deal with and realize it just doesn't matter. Adama was right--she's his daughter. Tigh is his best friend. Who cares if one's a Cylon and one came back from the dead?

Out of everyone, I think Adama has really become a model for where everyone else is headed. He did a lot of crying and grunting and breaking stuff, but he came to terms with everything. He's OK with Tigh being a Cylon, Starbuck being weird, losing Galactica, he knows Laura is going to die soon. He quit beating himself up about those things and found something to fight for: Hera. In the end, that's all most people want--a purpose.

And I think that, more than anything, is what we will get next week. It won't be about "what" they are, but rather what their purpose will be. Finding a direction for the future. I don't think we'll necessarily see the fruits of that new direction, but they will at least be set upon that path.

This is all speculation, though. I really have no spoilers of any kind.
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Old March 14 2009, 04:55 PM   #97
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

I got the feeling this episode might have been one of those infamous ones that was assembled at the last minute in the editing room, from like 90 solid minutes of footage. There was no real story here, just a bunch of snapshots, some of which were good ideas, some bad, I think.

Oddly of all the Caprica flashback stuff I think the most critical was Baltar's. Here, we saw some of the roots of Baltar's personality problems, in a very relatable way: most people know someone who's grown up under difficult parents, possibly hating them, and one interpretation of Baltar's flashback here is that his circumstances helped make him so self-serving because he saw this as a strategy to keep control of his own life. In the car, when Six remarked on the danger of relying on others, I feel this was actually a comment on Baltar himself. Baltar preserves himself at any cost but the one thing he does not truly know how to do is place faith in other people, because he's too busy fixating on himself.

Personally, I venture that his flashback was a setup for his own genuine redemption in the finale, where he will finally do something for others even knowing full well it might destroy him. Because we've now been shown a genuine reason for Baltar's broken personality - instead of him just "being an ass like that" - I think it's heavy set-up for his personality redeeming itself at the end.
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Old March 14 2009, 05:09 PM   #98
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Average. Very decidedly average. I did actually enjoy seeing the Caprica scenes, for a bit, then they were tedious. I just didn't feel vested in their drama back then, not after everything that's happened since. Of course, they're setting up the new series. If not the characters, at least the idea that it's a very Earth like setting.
So Earthlike they've built artificial intelligence but not automatically guided cars. No wonder the Cylons won the war.
No it's that the Cylons won the war (and probably a result of the war in general) that they wouldn't be too keen on a great level of AI control over things.
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Old March 14 2009, 05:26 PM   #99
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Marc wrote: View Post
Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Average. Very decidedly average. I did actually enjoy seeing the Caprica scenes, for a bit, then they were tedious. I just didn't feel vested in their drama back then, not after everything that's happened since. Of course, they're setting up the new series. If not the characters, at least the idea that it's a very Earth like setting.
So Earthlike they've built artificial intelligence but not automatically guided cars. No wonder the Cylons won the war.
No it's that the Cylons won the war (and probably a result of the war in general) that they wouldn't be too keen on a great level of AI control over things.
That was pretty much how I thought about it, too. It was their equivalent of the Butlerian Jihad, I suppose. No AIs!
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Old March 14 2009, 05:26 PM   #100
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Garibaldi O'brien wrote: View Post
Jesus! Caprica's pitty on Baltar's father was heart renching. "your father is a very complicated man, but there are a few simple things that make him happy. The last time I saw him he seemed happy,"
It was definitly a nice contrast with her scene in the mini-series with the baby (which I always saw as her doing a "mercy killing," making it quick compared to a potentially drawn out death from radiation). She seems to take pity on individuals, while at the same time, planning genocide.
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Old March 14 2009, 05:30 PM   #101
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Yassim wrote: View Post
- Doesn't a bird in the house signal a death in the family? Was that the point of the drunk Lee scene?
Yes it does. I don't think there was a point to him being drunk other than the fact that he got home after a fun night with his bro and his fiancee. The bird in the house does signify an impending death in the family (if RDM is indeed using this symbol in this way) -- a "harbinger of death" if you will. It's actually quite sad, really. I thought the scenes were quite well done.

Does anyone know how long before the attack these scenes take place? Laura hasn't yet signed on to Adar's campaign, so that puts us back at least four years before the Cylon attack? (She served the remaining 9 or so months of Adar's term after the attacks. Of course this is assuming the Colonial presidency is a 4-year term like the American presidency) If this is the case, I thought Caprica Six had only infiltrated two years before the attack, or am I wrong?
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Old March 14 2009, 05:31 PM   #102
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

shivkala wrote: View Post
Garibaldi O'brien wrote: View Post
Jesus! Caprica's pitty on Baltar's father was heart renching. "your father is a very complicated man, but there are a few simple things that make him happy. The last time I saw him he seemed happy,"
It was definitly a nice contrast with her scene in the mini-series with the baby (which I always saw as her doing a "mercy killing," making it quick compared to a potentially drawn out death from radiation). She seems to take pity on individuals, while at the same time, planning genocide.
I'm not too fond of her "redemption by retcon."

The stuff with Baltar's father was good, it just felt to me like she was shoehorned into it to make a point about who she is.
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Old March 14 2009, 05:46 PM   #103
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
See, I don't think we'll even get that. I would be surprised. My line of thinking is more like Yassim's. Some viewers watch this show hoping for revelations and answers, and missed that this show has never been about those things. It's always been about the questions, and how grappling with them affects the characters. Starbuck's resurrection thread doesn't exist merely as something to tie into the larger story. It's there for her to agonize over and deal with and realize it just doesn't matter.
See, I think that is RDM's justification for what's turned into a poor story. The theory flies in the face of all the SciFi publicity, the whole point of the last meal photo and the way the intros are/used to be (the opener with boomer/athena, final five, the quick 10 sec. action previews). The style was created to leave the audience on the edge waiting for answers.

It's honestly why so many of us (at least in my group of friends) got hooked the show. It genuinely left you wondering what the hell was really going on.

I think RDM began to write himself into corners, making a huge plot points that he couldn't conceivably take anywhere. So, he just started resolving them with little to no explanation. Hera almost went away in that manner before she was rescued by the finale story.

Take for example Lee Adama's political career and his recent decision to don the uniform again. What the hell? One minute he's the saviour of the quorum and the next he's back in the uniform without so much as blinking?

Taking that uniform off during the trial and after was incredibly painful for him and his father. But now all of a sudden, he's back on board?

I mean, I can make up a conceivable storyline in my head as to how he got from A to B but as far as the show goes, it's poor storytelling and it really isn't the kind of exposition we've come to expect (or at least used to before this season).

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
shivkala wrote: View Post
It was definitly a nice contrast with her scene in the mini-series with the baby (which I always saw as her doing a "mercy killing," making it quick compared to a potentially drawn out death from radiation). She seems to take pity on individuals, while at the same time, planning genocide.
I'm not too fond of her "redemption by retcon."

The stuff with Baltar's father was good, it just felt to me like she was shoehorned into it to make a point about who she is.
Unless she snapped his neck too. *dun-dun-dunnnn* O__O

I think what the story was going for is to show how she managed to get under his skin and become more than just another girl he screwed.
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Old March 14 2009, 05:46 PM   #104
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
The stuff with Baltar's father was good, it just felt to me like she was shoehorned into it to make a point about who she is.
I thought it made an interesting point about how she became more than just another one of Baltar's conquests. If he's got hundreds of beautiful women throwing themselves at him, what makes her different?

I don't think it redeems her by any stretch (she still nuked him, rest home or no) but it complicates her... and that's what BSG is all about, right?
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Old March 14 2009, 05:46 PM   #105
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Excellent. Now that's more like the old BSG. Definitely felt like the pentultamite episode too.

Suicide mission! My prediction of EVERYONE DIES!!!! YAAARGH!!! is coming true.

Getting a bit sick of Sam being bald and sitting in a tub for all these episodes. Let the poor guy do something before the end!

I'm not too fond of her "redemption by retcon."
The Cylons make zero sense. For her to be "nice" now makes as much sense as her continuing to be a bitch.
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