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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old February 25 2009, 12:37 AM   #1
MorganScorpion
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Are Vorta sexual beings?

The title basically asks it all.

What canonical evidence is there for your answer.
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Old February 25 2009, 12:47 AM   #2
Marie1
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

In "The Magnificent Ferengi" Yelgrun says he doesn't understand parent-child behaviour because he was cloned. And when Rom asks "no parents" he doesn't refute that statement.

However, all the Vorta seem different- and there are hundreds of them.
Also, according to Weyoun (tho yes, the Vorta lie constantly) the Vorta were originally a "people" or whatever that presumably reproduced sexually.

Weyoun also says he enjoys watching members of two different species "physically comforting" each other, so there seems to be sexual curiostity. But he didn't get Dukat's "she's a facinating woman, isn't she" about Kira.

Since the Vorta "don't have a sense of esthetics" the dating game may be out...

I think they could, and that they may, given the thousands of unique Vorta (tho the Jem'Hadar are too, so it doesn't mean anything) and that they are rather social beings. But I'm guessing no- time spent not "serving the Founders" and the fact Yelgrun didn't have parents means they probably don't reproduce sexually. And they never seem to hit on anyone either...

If they do, it's never been proven.
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Old February 25 2009, 01:02 AM   #3
MorganScorpion
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

I don't get Dukat's remark about Kira being fascinating, and I am a sexual being. So that doesn't signify. Neither does the fact that they do not reproduce sexually mean that they can't have sex. Indeed, lack of a sense of aesthetics has never stopped humans from having sex, if anything, its an asset.

In what episode does Weyoun say he likes watching members of different species physically comforting each other?
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Old February 25 2009, 01:12 AM   #4
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

Of course they are.

Weyoun compliments Damar's girlfriend as being an exceptional woman because he (Weyoun) was banging her too. That's one of the reasons why Damar hated Weyoun so much. Pretty sure Weyoun was also banging the female Founder after Odo taught her how solids do it and she wanted some more.

Weyoun doesn't say he enjoys watching members of different species comfort each other. Rather, he says he enjoys watching inter-species mating rituals (ie: actual sex).

Kilana very clearly dresses to arouse and distract her enemy from his or her purpose.
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Old February 25 2009, 01:17 AM   #5
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

While it seems pretty clear the Vorta were once rather 'ordinary' in their couplings, I think that their sexual qualities are probably vestigial at this point, used more in dealings with other species. Some Vorta, like Kilana, play up their attractiveness as a distrction, but probably don't really understand it.

In all liklehood the Vorta that are not directly cloned are test tube babies a la 'Brave New World.'
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Old February 25 2009, 01:25 AM   #6
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

Well, there are male Vorta and female Vorta, so I took that as a given.
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Old February 25 2009, 02:07 AM   #7
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

I suppose that brings up another question, are the Vorta all diplomats for the Dominion or is their species as varied as anyone elses. If so an entire planet of Vorta might be very interesting or creepy depending on your tastes
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Old February 25 2009, 02:34 AM   #8
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

MorganScorpion wrote: View Post
I don't get Dukat's remark about Kira being fascinating, and I am a sexual being. So that doesn't signify. Neither does the fact that they do not reproduce sexually mean that they can't have sex. Indeed, lack of a sense of aesthetics has never stopped humans from having sex, if anything, its an asset.

In what episode does Weyoun say he likes watching members of different species physically comforting each other?
Do you remember it? Dukat's leer, and Weyoun's "I wouldn't know" ?

I don't think they "can't" have sex. I don't think it's used for reproduction. And I think it would be rare, as their job is to serve the Founders. That means going on missions, usually one per ship. It's probably physically possible.

I think you need to be able to appreciate someone in some way for the sex to mean anything. And all Weyoun saw with Kira is that "we need her" to be allied with them.

I don't think that Weyoun was having sex with any Cardassian. He showed quite a bit of contempt for Damar's behaviour.

Praetor wrote: View Post
While it seems pretty clear the Vorta were once regular 'ordinary' in their couplings, I think that their sexual qualities are probably vestigial at this point, used more in dealings with other species. Some Vorta, like Kilana, play up their attractiveness as a distrction, but probably don't really understand it.

In all liklehood the Vorta that are not directly cloned are test tube babies a la 'Brave New World.'
^Agreed. Thats what what we've seen on screen seem to indicate.



And, OT, the are Vorta scientists etc. as well... and some apparently just go with the Jem'Hadar on important missions.
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Old February 25 2009, 03:44 AM   #9
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

PorthosShadow wrote: View Post
I suppose that brings up another question, are the Vorta all diplomats for the Dominion or is their species as varied as anyone elses. If so an entire planet of Vorta might be very interesting or creepy depending on your tastes
Every race in the Dominion is intended for a specific purpose. All members within that race are uniform in that goal:

Founders: ultimate rulers, worshipped as gods by all other Dominion races

Vorta: diplomats, bureaucrats, Jem'Hadar field commanders

Hunters: navigators/trackers
(A Hunter was supposed to appear in "Broken Link" - as the character who takes over the Defiant's navigation console when going to the Founder homeworld - but it got cut, and changed to a Jem'Hadar instead. Still, it was supposed to be there. Also, the Hunters' prey, the Tosk, are obviously of shared genetic stock with the Jem'Hadar - they look sort of alike and they have the same shrouding ability. Probably the same 'original' race was used to create both the Jem'Hadar and the Tosk.)

And so on.

So no, the Vorta aren't particularly varied. They were made for a specific task, and that's all they do. Just like the Jem'Hadar. The only time a Vorta would display sexual characteristics or mannerisms is if it's trying to manipulate someone. Kilana, for example, vs. Sisko in "The Ship".
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Old February 25 2009, 03:46 AM   #10
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

In a way, I wish they had made the Tosk/Hunter connection to the Dominion as planned, because it fits- as you mentioned, the shroud etc.

But I just find that hunting of the Tosk and other blood sports so terrible I'm kinda glad they didn't.
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Old February 25 2009, 03:49 AM   #11
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

Marie1 wrote: View Post
In a way, I wish they had made the Tosk/Hunter connection to the Dominion as planned, because it fits- as you mentioned, the shroud etc.
I'm still wondering why they cut that out. It's not like DS9 fans wouldn't have made the connection. The show is so arc-driven anyway, what's one more?

But I just find that hunting of the Tosk and other blood sports so terrible I'm kinda glad they didn't.
I don't think it's so terrible. The Tosk are obviously used to it and even enjoy it. And the Hunters clearly treat them with respect and care. True, the Tosk are little more than target practice, but they were *made* that way. The Jem'Hadar enjoy fighting - that's *all* they enjoy. Same for their 'cousins' the Tosk. They were made to be hunted. That's all they want, or will ever want, to happen to them. That's the way it is in the Dominion - every race has a specific purpose.
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Old February 25 2009, 04:34 AM   #12
Marie1
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Marie1 wrote: View Post
In a way, I wish they had made the Tosk/Hunter connection to the Dominion as planned, because it fits- as you mentioned, the shroud etc.
I'm still wondering why they cut that out. It's not like DS9 fans wouldn't have made the connection. The show is so arc-driven anyway, what's one more?
I'm not sure... it did seem a bit obvious... it's not like the Dominion could be worse when it came to disrespect for life...
Maybe its just the same as the AQ/GQ Jem'Hadar, and all those other things they just never followed up on...

But I just find that hunting of the Tosk and other blood sports so terrible I'm kinda glad they didn't.
I don't think it's so terrible. The Tosk are obviously used to it and even enjoy it. And the Hunters clearly treat them with respect and care. True, the Tosk are little more than target practice, but they were *made* that way. The Jem'Hadar enjoy fighting - that's *all* they enjoy. Same for their 'cousins' the Tosk. They were made to be hunted. That's all they want, or will ever want, to happen to them. That's the way it is in the Dominion - every race has a specific purpose.
I'm not sure the Tosk "enjoyed" it per se... but like the Jem'Hadar, they seem to have a genetic "we must do this" sort of thing, and they were determined to do it well. Tosk clearly put more emphasis on dying with honour in the hunt than he did on his life. I guess I just personally find it sad,be it Tosk, dog-fighting, anything like that... even though the Dominion obviously doesn't care...

Oh, this is elaborated more in DS9 and TNG novels but they say that even though the Jem'Hadar are expendable, they don't want them wasted frivoulously. On that note, even the Founder knew her Jem'Hadar by name. So maybe TPTB thought that the Dominion would find resources for the hunt and engineering the Tosk would be wasteful if elaborated upon? Its a thought...

I wish they'd taken out some of the more terrible parts of DS9 and elaborated on this stuff... replace the A-plot of Meridian or something!!!
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Old February 25 2009, 07:52 AM   #13
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

Marie1 wrote: View Post
I'm not sure the Tosk "enjoyed" it per se...
He said "I live the greatest adventure one could ever desire." Sure seems like he enjoyed it!
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Old February 25 2009, 03:14 PM   #14
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

Hmm... true.
Ugh, can you imagine living like that... well, I guess... apparently we'd like but... eek!!
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Old February 25 2009, 03:52 PM   #15
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Re: Are Vorta sexual beings?

Marie1 wrote: View Post
Hmm... true.
Ugh, can you imagine living like that... well, I guess... apparently we'd like but... eek!!
If I were a Tosk I doubt I'd be able to imagine not living like that.
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