Terminator-217 "Ourselves Alone" - Discuss/Grade <SPOILERS>

[the_wildcard]

This whole subplot involving Riley, the australian accent woman and Derek is getting really boring now. They should have had Derek discover the setup about 3-4 episodes ago. Now they are just dragging it on and on.

[Mr Light]

^^ "She's probably smarter, and more able to integrate in human society, than your average T888. " Which would explain her monotone robotic personality But seriously why the hell was she so human and charming in her introduction scene in the pilot and then a frickin' robot after that even when she needed to appear human?

[Wouter2]

the_wildcard wrote:

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This whole subplot involving Riley, the australian accent woman and Derek is getting really boring now. They should have had Derek discover the setup about 3-4 episodes ago. Now they are just dragging it on and on.

Then I hope you don't watch BSG, there they drag on subplots for like 4 seasons. I think it's a pretty quick resolution, myself. How many episodes has Riley even been in? Not that many, and those include the initial introduction.

Mr.Light; The producers have said something like Cameron was given a special "introduction" program to deal with John at that particular school. Which does sound like a bit of an excuse; they probably changed their mind on how human they wanted her to be. However, Cameron has proven in "Allison of Palmdale" she can be very convincingly human, when she wants to. I don't see a T8xx ever doing that. When with the Connors, she doesn't need to "act" human anyway, they know what she is.

[Nociod]

nx1701g wrote:

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Yes. We've seen Cameron in a bikini without any damage since the pilot.

Well, actually, we haven't.

What we saw was Sarah dreaming about Cameron in a bikini

But to discuss this episode, gave it an excellent! , much much better than what we have been seeing these past episodes. It had it flaws, sure, but it was such an improvement, plus they got rid of the most annoying character on the show.

I think we'll have another death soon, and I think Derek will kill Jesse, either that or Jesse will kill Derek. No spoiler code here, because it's not from any rumor of any kind, I just think that it will happen, and might of course be wrong

[HappyDayRiot]

For a brief moment I really thought Riley might somehow kill Jesse... but obviously that wouldn't make any kind of sense. I didn't mind Riley that much but her death means some shit will hit the fan now, and obviously it's all running up to the end of the season. Can't wait...

[LutherSloan]

I'm convinced that Jesse is going to die at some point before the season ends. She pretty much has to. Of course the only chance of her 'plan' succeeding now is if John believes Cameron killed Riley. I really hope we find out what happens in the future that makes her want to keep John and Cameron apart. My guess is Cameron malfunctions and kills John.

[Mr Light]

I forget if this was mentioned in the episode or we were just thinking it, but Jesse could still frame Cameron for the murder of Riley, plant the gun in her room or something like that. Of course why would a Terminator use a gun, but still.

[HappyDayRiot]

I don't think she has to do anything - the mere fact Riley has vanished, coupled with John's doubts and Sarah pointing out all the times Cameron has lied to them, will be enough. No body ever has to be seen.

[Tim]

Wouter2 wrote:

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The description for this episode promised more glitches for Cameron, but she only seemed to have mechanical difficulties this time (though the second bird was disturbing - and John realised she clearly is not "fixed"). I got the impression the other "glitch" was that she didn't kill Riley when she normally would have done so without hesitation (like Enrique) - which was not a bad thing at all. Is Cameron developping a sort of conscience?

Good point. We saw Cameron's "fixed" hand twitching as she approached Riley in the garage, suggesting that she was going to kill her as she did the birds. However, I'm not clear if she really meant to kill Riley, since she didn't mean to kill the birds.

I also thought it was rather poignant when Cameron gives John the kill-switch. She knows something's wrong with her but can't fix it. I'm interested in seeing how that plays out. I guess John's cleaning her chip like an old Nintendo cartridge wasn't the best idea.

[Wouter2]

Mr Light wrote:

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I forget if this was mentioned in the episode or we were just thinking it, but Jesse could still frame Cameron for the murder of Riley, plant the gun in her room or something like that. Of course why would a Terminator use a gun, but still.

Cameron used a gun to kill Enrique, and for the 3 bowling guys. The various other Terminators, even the T1000 in T2, also frequently have used guns. The only Terminator who really likes "handwork" is Weaver, it seems to me.

I agree that Jesse is going to place the blame on Cameron - and she probably doesn't need to do anything more but make sure the body gets found at a place where it would seem reasonable Cameron could have dumped it.

Regarding the twitching hand, it may be that Cameron's default Terminator programming (eliminate threats) is conflicting with her newfound regard for life in general, and her desire to be "good" (as she expressed to John in the episode where she went after Ellison for Cromartie's body). Since repairing the hand apparently did nothing, the problem is probably conflicting commands from the chip/nerve center. Her hand was ready to kill Riley, but her head (most of it, anyway) not.

[hyzmarca]

I think that it's a programming conflict. Killing the bird was the safe thing to do. If it returned to it's chimney nest it would have been a fire hazard. But killing the bird would also have been harmful to the mission by damaging John's trust in her and possibly attracting the attention of animal welfare authorities. The need to protect John from two different types of danger, one physical and one emotional led to a moment of indecision and the hand spasm is a result of her inability to prioritize the two conflicting goals. With Riley, the issue is the same, but stronger. Leaving Riley alive was unacceptable, but so was killing her.

[Tim]

Wouter2 wrote:

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Regarding the twitching hand, it may be that Cameron's default Terminator programming (eliminate threats) is conflicting with her newfound regard for life in general, and her desire to be "good" (as she expressed to John in the episode where she went after Ellison for Cromartie's body). Since repairing the hand apparently did nothing, the problem is probably conflicting commands from the chip/nerve center. Her hand was ready to kill Riley, but her head (most of it, anyway) not.

That seems most plausible to me. Remember that in "Samson and Delilah" she manually overrode her default programming to terminate John through some sheer force of will / regard for life. Perhaps that's finally starting to falter and her default programming is struggling to re-assert itself.

[Wouter2]

Agreed, except that I actually think her - relative - regard for life is getting stronger, not weaker. She is not only considering John now, but also those he cares about, and even just random animals.

[nx1701g]

Nociod wrote:

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Well, actually, we haven't.

Actually we saw her in The Turk walking across frame in her bra and panties as John and Sarah were talking about the photos from the Resistance Safehouse.

[nx1701g]

Tim M wrote:

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That seems most plausible to me. Remember that in "Samson and Delilah" she manually overrode her default programming to terminate John through some sheer force of will / regard for life. Perhaps that's finally starting to falter and her default programming is struggling to re-assert itself.

Core program is a real bitch isn't it