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Old March 6 2009, 04:28 AM   #31
LutherSloan
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

It has been mentioned in other threads that the series creator's intention was to have a new cast each year. However, the popularity of the characters forced them to scrap that idea.

I agree that I am watching the rest of this season to see if anything changes. If it doesn't, forget it. The writers are really writing in circles at this point. None of the characters have changed at all or grown in forever. Things like the Matt/Daphne romance were so unbelievably forced that you didn't care when she was briefly presumed killed this season (but she somehow survived). Characters like Nathan can't make up their mind if they want to be evil or good, and seem to change from one to the other 5-6 times in ONE EPISODE.

Just this week we had another forced, albeit brief, romantic thing between Claire and Alex (the aquaboy). Almost immediately after that he disappeared, presumably for good as he is supposed to have gone to Albuquerque.

Then of course there are the dozens of characters who have disappeared but are not dead, including West (Claire's romantic interest in Season 2), Molly (the girl who can locate anyone), Micah (orphaned son of Niki Sanders), Maya, Zach (Claire's friend from Season 1 who was played by Thomas Dekker of Terminator: TSCC fame), Claude (the invisible man from Season 1), Monica (the fast-learning girl from Season 2), and of course the infamous Caitlin (in case you don't remember, she was Peter's love interest from Ireland in Season 2 who appears to be stuck in a possible future with no escape). That's a pretty hefty list. I am not including 'The Haitian' because he comes and goes a lot in this series.
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Old March 6 2009, 04:31 AM   #32
Temis the Vorta
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

Maybe Milo? Though if the spoiler I've heard holds true, that reason will no longer exist. Sigh.
Oh please. They will never never never have the guts to kill Peter (permanently). He's in the same category as Sylar, (sadly) Claire and (even more sadly) Hiro - too may fans would bail as a result and there's no way Heroes can lose a big chunk of their fans at this point.

Tho at this point, Hiro might be expendable...do people still like him?
Hopefully this is good news for Chuck, because it gets almost the same numbers as Heroes does and doesn't even cost half to make.
I dunno, she mentioned international revenues as a factor in the renewal and that's something we hardly hear anything about - just how big a factor is it, anyway? Is Chuck doing well internationally?
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Old March 6 2009, 04:32 AM   #33
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Tho at this point, Hiro might be expendable...do people still like him?
I sure don't.
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Old March 6 2009, 04:36 AM   #34
Temis the Vorta
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

I never got the Hiro-love, myself. I can see ways to take most of the characters in interesting directions, but with Hiro and Claire, I draw a total blank.
Half the fun of the first season was examining and learning about the characters. When there was nothing more to learn, and we knew everything about them, there was really no where to go but downhill.
Good writers could have done something much more interesting with most of those characters. Hiro and Claire are the only ones where I question whether they are salvageable. (And Nikki/Tracey, but I don't even know who that person is; kill them, find the third sister and start from scratch maybe.)

The chief problem is that nobody seems to have sat down and thought good and hard about What Is The Core of This Character? That's the first thing you need to know - what journey are they on? That will tell you what they're going to do in the story. Then let the characters tell you what the story is by imagining what they would do if they were real people with that core and that journey. That's how you keep them feeling "real" and authentic rather than just randomly written pawns going through motions in the service of a plot.

The complex thing is that you have half a dozen people (meaning the lead characters) all embarked on their stories and you need to arrange things so that they interact without it seeming too forced. That's the tough part. When you're letting your characters be themselves and have free will, their priorities will not necessarily be staying in the same room or even the same city. But they did that in S1 - why not again?

It has been mentioned in other threads that the series creator's intention was to have a new cast each year. However, the popularity of the characters forced them to scrap that idea
I still think people largely watch shows for the characters. Killing some characters, ok. All of them? Suicide.

Also, if you have an audience who watches for the characters, you can get away with shitty writing.
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Old March 6 2009, 04:39 AM   #35
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

Claire is always on the verge of being salvageable...and then Noah shows up and she's back in "Dad? How could you?!" mode. For Claire to have any sort of growth, she needs to never ever see her father again.
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Old March 6 2009, 04:39 AM   #36
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

The show sucks now, period. That's what I was afraid of during the brilliant first season. The first sign of trouble was when in the last episode of season one, Peter and Sylar had that boring crap "fight", something we waited nearly half a season to build up to. I was excited though to see them taking certain risks. But I lost interest when we had that chick in New Orleans "skipping" to show us her powers. The show went downhill from there.
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Old March 6 2009, 04:40 AM   #37
Alidar Jarok
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

At the moment, I'm only giving the show until the end of the volume. If it doesn't end with a bang, I can't imagine myself being back. It's not bad, it's just overwhelmingly underwhelming. It's getting harder and harder to give a shit about what's happening in the episodes. Eventually, I'll stop giving a shit about whether or not I watch it.
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Old March 6 2009, 04:47 AM   #38
Temis the Vorta
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Claire is always on the verge of being salvageable...and then Noah shows up and she's back in "Dad? How could you?!" mode. For Claire to have any sort of growth, she needs to never ever see her father again.
Noah needs to die. Sorry folks, but that's the only way to shape Claire into a halfway worthwhile character. She needs to get a smack to the head when the daddy she always took for granted dies to protect her ingrateful ass.

I was watching Lost last night and was once again struck by the paradox that Lost continually manages to deliver kick-ass writing, with characters who never feel fake, and plotlines that generally feel genuine - confusing and insane, sure - but not artificially produced via gimmickry. Why is this so difficult for everyone else?

Sure, Lost falls back on some gimmickry, all that "fate/numbers" stuff, but it isn't nearly as obtuse as having "Rebel" lead characters around by the nose at convenient junctures or the hoary old prophetic-cartoon routine.
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Old March 6 2009, 04:53 AM   #39
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

I found this on the IMDB FAQ section for 'Heroes' about Caitlin:

'Caitlin was left in the future, and they will never mention her again, according to Tim Kring. Due to the writers strike, they scrapped the idea of getting her back.'

Well, I guess that settles that...
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Old March 6 2009, 05:21 AM   #40
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

I still love Hiro and Ando, even when they're stopping weddings in India Actually at this point my list of beliked characters is basically Hiro & Ando, Parkman & Daphne, Noah, and Mohinder (well not so much in the third season!). I also loved the African mystic seer so I was pretty pissed he was so unceremoniously killed off, but then we see him sometimes after he died so we'll see! I want to like Sylar but it's so horrifically artificial the way he gets these little side-stories when he should have been killed off two seasons ago.
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Old March 6 2009, 05:26 AM   #41
Thrall
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

I dunno, she mentioned international revenues as a factor in the renewal and that's something we hardly hear anything about - just how big a factor is it, anyway? Is Chuck doing well internationally?
I don't know. It's one of the top shows on ITunes and Hulu though. And it gets more or less the same ratings Heroes does, but Chuck's spot is a killer though. Heroes does slightly better in the demos though.

I found this on the IMDB FAQ section for 'Heroes' about Caitlin:

'Caitlin was left in the future, and they will never mention her again, according to Tim Kring. Due to the writers strike, they scrapped the idea of getting her back.'

Well, I guess that settles that...
Yeah, that right there proves what a bunch of hacks they are. It makes Peter look like a horrible person for just forgetting about her.
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Old March 6 2009, 05:34 AM   #42
Temis the Vorta
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

It's one of the top shows on ITunes and Hulu though.
Why those things don't count.

The things that might count, which I haven't seen much data on: international sales and in-show product placements. How to place them in context with Nielsens is the open question.

And I know Chuck does gangbusters in in-show product placements.
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Old March 6 2009, 05:36 AM   #43
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

^ But Fox has reported they are counting both of those in their decisions to cancel or continue shows. It was what saved Sarah Connor last season and the producers admitted this.
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Old March 6 2009, 05:37 AM   #44
Temis the Vorta
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

T:SCC is also a champ in product placements.
But Fox has reported they are counting both of those in their decisions to cancel or continue shows. It was what saved Sarah Connor last season and the producers admitted this.
Funny how the numbers don't back them up. But if they want to make decisions irrationally, that's their perogative.

There are too many shows that do well in downloads but get cancelled for me to trust downloads as a savior. Jericho and Journeyman for starters.
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Old March 6 2009, 06:45 AM   #45
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Re: NBC plans to bring Heroes back for a fourth season

Just put it out of its misery. The show runners and the writers do not have a clue, its a good concept with a good set of actors - but the story stinks to high heaven, its simply laughable.
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