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Old February 26 2009, 05:42 PM   #1
RobertScorpio
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You died? WHY?

Our Starship Captains have had to deal with death a lot. What death, Red shirt or whatever, can you directly pin on the captain's bad decisions? And why do you think so?

(movie deaths do not count..series only)

Rob
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Old February 26 2009, 06:19 PM   #2
Flying Spaghetti Monster
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Re: You died? WHY?

Everyone on board the E-D. I mean the captain can't negotiate a prisoner exchange, and his first officer can't take out a 25-year-old BOP..

And in a sense all those lives are still lost, at least kinda
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Old February 27 2009, 01:25 AM   #3
USS Triumphant
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Re: You died? WHY?

Commander (later Captain) Riker outright killed that assassin woman he was in love with in "The Vengeance Factor", and for no damned good reason. What, exactly, would have been wrong with continuously stunning her until she fell down, or beaming her into a containment cell? He was talking to the ship on his communicator while that was going on!
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Old February 27 2009, 01:43 AM   #4
Tom
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Re: You died? WHY?

Sisko killed billions cause he could not handle the dominion correctly, thus the resulting war!
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Old February 27 2009, 01:49 AM   #5
black_dranzer
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Re: You died? WHY?

A Janeway killed her entire crew (except Harry and Naomi) in Deadlock when she self-destructed one of the Voyager twins

Kirk gets numerous red-shirts killed by even thinking about letting them go on away missions in the first place
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Old February 27 2009, 02:44 AM   #6
Joemac
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Re: You died? WHY?

in "sins of the father" Picard and Worf allowed a cover up by the klingons that resulted in a treacherous and deadly family being left in power. This resulted in the death of the klingon leader K'mpec by poisoning, K'Ehleyr by duras, several klingons by romulan bombs[supplied to duras] many hundreds,if not thousands by a civil war caused by the duras sisters and the romulans. all of this could have been avoided by a simple, " father was a traitor and so is he". Under klingon law duras and family would have been no more and all those lives would have been safe. major mistake.
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Last edited by Joemac; February 27 2009 at 02:46 AM. Reason: bad spelling.oops
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Old February 27 2009, 03:01 AM   #7
troisboobs
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Re: You died? WHY?

This would be a good thread for BSG!
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Old February 27 2009, 02:24 PM   #8
Jeyl
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Re: You died? WHY?

First Contact. We can rescue Picard from the Borg, but we'll be danged if we even contemplate trying to find a way to rescue the crew members who have already been assimilated. And when all the assimilated crew members are dead, we return to the present with a big fat smile on our faces.
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Old February 27 2009, 02:47 PM   #9
RobertScorpio
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Re: You died? WHY?

Jeyl wrote: View Post
First Contact. We can rescue Picard from the Borg, but we'll be danged if we even contemplate trying to find a way to rescue the crew members who have already been assimilated. And when all the assimilated crew members are dead, we return to the present with a big fat smile on our faces.
You nailed it dude. I call it R.H.I.P.T.N.G

That stands for Rank Has Its Privileges. on The Next Generation...

Or how else could Worf kill a dude in premaditated fashion, then go back to his post as if nothing happened. Or Picard (as Locutus) can kill 16,000 Federation citizens and just go back to his job as if nothing happened. Or how Riker can show much disrespect to a senior officer and just go back to his post with out even a slap on the wrist.

Rob
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Old February 27 2009, 03:50 PM   #10
Jon-o'-lantern
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Re: You died? WHY?

FleetLord wrote: View Post
Sisko killed billions cause he could not handle the dominion correctly, thus the resulting war!
To quote an infamous Australian politician, "Please explain?"
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Old February 27 2009, 04:59 PM   #11
Crewman47
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Re: You died? WHY?

RobertScorpio wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
First Contact. We can rescue Picard from the Borg, but we'll be danged if we even contemplate trying to find a way to rescue the crew members who have already been assimilated. And when all the assimilated crew members are dead, we return to the present with a big fat smile on our faces.
You nailed it dude. I call it R.H.I.P.T.N.G

That stands for Rank Has Its Privileges. on The Next Generation...

Or how else could Worf kill a dude in premaditated fashion, then go back to his post as if nothing happened. Or Picard (as Locutus) can kill 16,000 Federation citizens and just go back to his job as if nothing happened. Or how Riker can show much disrespect to a senior officer and just go back to his post with out even a slap on the wrist.

Rob
I don't get this as it comes up a few times but what are they supposed to do in this situation? Picard got assimiliated and it was reversible, but that was only because he was captured and his crew worked on him over a couple of days or so to get it reversed. With the crew in FC they were assimilated completly as drones and sent out to do there work. Afaik stunning a drone can't be done and the only way to incapicitate it would be to kill it. There would be no time in the situation given to capture all assimilated crew members and put them through a reversal process.
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Old February 27 2009, 11:28 PM   #12
ZMistress
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Re: You died? WHY?

Crewman47 wrote: View Post
RobertScorpio wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
First Contact. We can rescue Picard from the Borg, but we'll be danged if we even contemplate trying to find a way to rescue the crew members who have already been assimilated. And when all the assimilated crew members are dead, we return to the present with a big fat smile on our faces.
You nailed it dude. I call it R.H.I.P.T.N.G

That stands for Rank Has Its Privileges. on The Next Generation...

Or how else could Worf kill a dude in premaditated fashion, then go back to his post as if nothing happened. Or Picard (as Locutus) can kill 16,000 Federation citizens and just go back to his job as if nothing happened. Or how Riker can show much disrespect to a senior officer and just go back to his post with out even a slap on the wrist.

Rob
I don't get this as it comes up a few times but what are they supposed to do in this situation? Picard got assimiliated and it was reversible, but that was only because he was captured and his crew worked on him over a couple of days or so to get it reversed. With the crew in FC they were assimilated completly as drones and sent out to do there work. Afaik stunning a drone can't be done and the only way to incapicitate it would be to kill it. There would be no time in the situation given to capture all assimilated crew members and put them through a reversal process.
Quoting Lily: "You didn't even try! Where was your evolved sensibility then?"

And that's the thing that always bothered me: There wasn't a single mention about trying another angle than kill 'em all. Even if it turned out to be not possible, they should have least talked about it.
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Old February 28 2009, 08:18 AM   #13
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Re: You died? WHY?

In hindsight, the First Contact crew probably didn't have to worry about saving assimilated crew members anyway. Taking into consideration that the queen had died and that the assimilated could have been captured, the Enterprise was really just a split-second time jump away from Starfleet HQ. Resources wouldn't have been a problem.
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Old February 28 2009, 10:31 AM   #14
LutherSloan
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Re: You died? WHY?

I'm sorry, but I disagree about First Contact. Considering that this was before Voyager, where it was seemingly easier (with The Doctor's expertise) to reverse assimilation, I am not sure what he was expected to do. Remember as well that early on, Sickbay was overrun by the Borg and Dr. Crusher and her team had to flee. Without a sickbay to use, and the ship under constant siege, was there really any realistic way to spend valuable time attempting to save assimilated crewmen? Not to mention the fact that they adapt to weapons and are extremely strong if you want to try and take them alive.
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Old February 28 2009, 09:01 PM   #15
Cyke101
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Re: You died? WHY?

LutherSloan wrote: View Post
I'm sorry, but I disagree about First Contact. Considering that this was before Voyager, where it was seemingly easier (with The Doctor's expertise) to reverse assimilation, I am not sure what he was expected to do. Remember as well that early on, Sickbay was overrun by the Borg and Dr. Crusher and her team had to flee. Without a sickbay to use, and the ship under constant siege, was there really any realistic way to spend valuable time attempting to save assimilated crewmen? Not to mention the fact that they adapt to weapons and are extremely strong if you want to try and take them alive.
Well, assuming everything up until the Borg Queen gets KO'd went accordingly just as in the movie, you've still got a ton of Borg bodies on the ship when our heroes head back to the 24th Century.
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