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View Poll Results: Grade the movie
A+ 49 16.78%
A 66 22.60%
A- 56 19.18%
B+ 34 11.64%
B 24 8.22%
B- 16 5.48%
C+ 13 4.45%
C 9 3.08%
C- 5 1.71%
D+ 2 0.68%
D 9 3.08%
D- 5 1.71%
F 4 1.37%
Voters: 292. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 26 2009, 02:39 AM   #871
Yassim
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Dream wrote: View Post
Yassim wrote: View Post
This clip makes it all seem like part of the same thing, like all violence is a ballet. Except for the crunching bit at the end, which is really weird.

The acting in front of the newstand is *terrible*. Fan film.

and this would give Hollis two scenes in the movie, instead of one...? why bother with the character at all?
Why have any minor character in the movie at all? Get rid of everyone except the main characters! But seriously Hollis Mason enhanced the film.
I don't agree. Hollis had a cameo at the beginning... and now he dies? It feels a little bit like having the Snow Monster from Empire Strikes Back come back at the end for a death scene. Why bring him back?

I don't object to having minor characters in the movie. But when the main characters lose a lot of their development (Dr. Manhattan, Ozymandias) and when some main plot threads are dropped (Laurie vs. Comedian), then why are we reprising a character who was virtually cut anyway?

Instead of having a cameo in the movie he gets an ending which I thought was really needed. The scene does a good job at showing how much chaos there is near the end.
I think, with Hollis's reduced role, people would have wondered either who this guy was, or why the guy from the opening was getting beat down by these people who weren't in the movie before. The connection's a little thin in the original, but nearly non-existent here.

I don't see how being beaten to death can be considered a good thing even with the music. It was pretty sad scene. The acting by the gang members isn't great. But it's only for a few seconds so it really doesn't bother me that much.
I thought the scene in the graphic novel was sadder. The clip I saw makes it feel like Mason is going down in a blaze of glory, like it's his final moment of superhero-ing, he dies on his feet, like a hero blah blah blah... in the graphic novel, he's just gutted, surprised with a handful of Halloween candy, beaten senseless for no reason... I'm just not sure what the point of the scene as filmed is.

I see a lot of support for it, so I guess it worked for someone. I tried very hard not to hold the movie responsible for being faithful to the graphic novel - I know it needs to be free to do its own thing. In fact, I thought it was most successful when it broke free - the opening montage, the Comedian killing, the revised plot and ending... all that, I thought worked.

When it started recreating frames from the original, though, it was just inviting a comparison, and rarely measuring up. If you're going to recreate the moment, then include the original reason for the moment. This, like Laurie's revelation on Mars, like the sex scene, like Dan and Laurie's fight in the alley, like most of the Antarctic stuff felt recreated for the sake of making it look like the original.
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Old July 26 2009, 03:07 AM   #872
Caligula
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post

I thought that addition in the director's cut was more funny then gross. That scene was so over top and seemed like something out of 300. Talk about a crappy day for that woman!
That was the ONLY part I would have left out- the close-up of the hand. It doesn't irk me, it was just unnecessary IMO.
Besides, I already saw it in Taxi Driver.
It was unnecessary, yes. On the other hand, I liked being caught off guard with it. Zack Snyder must be a Robert De Niro fan (which is cool because I am, too). Firstly, you have the woman's fingers being blown off like the old man in Taxi Driver. In Hollis Mason's murder scene, "Cavelleria Rusticana: Intermezzo," which is probably the most recognizable piece of music from Raging Bull, is playing in the background.
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Old July 26 2009, 03:24 AM   #873
Chrisisall
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Yassim wrote: View Post
stuff felt recreated for the sake of making it look like the original.
I think you're being a little hard on the movie without taking into consideration that a 100% literal & faithful translation from the graphic novel, while possible, would inherently be bad film-making.
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Old July 26 2009, 03:26 AM   #874
Chrisisall
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Caligula wrote: View Post
On the other hand,


Sorry, it just caught my twisted attention.
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Old July 26 2009, 03:37 AM   #875
Caligula
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
Caligula wrote: View Post
On the other hand,


Sorry, it just caught my twisted attention.
It was intended to.
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Old July 26 2009, 04:09 AM   #876
Chrisisall
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Caligula wrote: View Post
Chrisisall wrote: View Post
Caligula wrote: View Post
On the other hand,


Sorry, it just caught my twisted attention.
It was intended to.
You're either a scurrilous nave, a writer, or both.
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Old July 26 2009, 06:02 AM   #877
DarthPipes
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

It's Hollis Freakin Mason...that's why you put his death back in the film.

Also forgot to mention but the actor who played Lt. Thorne, Fulvio Cecere on BSG is also in the scene with Gaeta. He's the government guy who tells Manhatten in the original version as well as this one what not to discuss.

Great little line added to Rorshach's monologue about the fates of the costumed heroes...

"Veidt just as bad. Possible homosexual? Must investigate further."
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Old July 26 2009, 01:05 PM   #878
Caligula
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
You're either a scurrilous nave, a writer, or both.
Screenwriter. A mere rookie, but nevertheless an aspiring one.

DarthPipes wrote: View Post
Great little line added to Rorshach's monologue about the fates of the costumed heroes...

"Veidt just as bad. Possible homosexual? Must investigate further."
I was so happy to hear that bit of dialogue restored in the Director's Cut!
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Old July 26 2009, 02:43 PM   #879
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Atariboy wrote: View Post
And it seems I'm the only person who doesn't have a problem with a song about sex actually playing during a sex scene... or do people just not pay attention to the lyrics???
The problem I had with that scene is I initially didn't know how to view it. Is it a serious sex scene, is a funny sex scene? On one hand the music suggest one thing but Snider shot it too well so I keep thinking it's supposed to be sexy.

It confuses me I say.
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Old July 26 2009, 02:43 PM   #880
OdoWanKenobi
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

One thing I like was them moving the "old friend's daughter" flashback to earlier in the film, and then seeing part of it again where it originally was. It makes the revelation have more weight when it's set up earlier instead of the "out of thin air" revelation that it was in the theatrical cut.
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Old July 26 2009, 08:16 PM   #881
Orintho
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

I'm disappointed that they apparently didn't do the flashback where Laurie confronted Blake in Washington. Laurie's character suffered from having her hatred of Blake completely taken out of the film and Morgan was the best thing in Watchmen. No way you eliminate one of his scenes.
Agreed.
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Old July 26 2009, 08:19 PM   #882
Yassim
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
Yassim wrote: View Post
stuff felt recreated for the sake of making it look like the original.
I think you're being a little hard on the movie without taking into consideration that a 100% literal & faithful translation from the graphic novel, while possible, would inherently be bad film-making.
That's what I said - that the original stuff in the movie was interesting, but the direct lifts from the graphic novel were lifeless or missing the point.

This may be just a problem of mine - when it's new, I've got an open mind, but when it looks just like something I know, I expect it to be at least as good as the original.

But I still can't see why a filmmaker would preserve the images and not the feeling of a comic book or graphic novel.
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Old July 27 2009, 01:12 AM   #883
Dream
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Emher wrote: View Post
Atariboy wrote: View Post
And it seems I'm the only person who doesn't have a problem with a song about sex actually playing during a sex scene... or do people just not pay attention to the lyrics???
The problem I had with that scene is I initially didn't know how to view it. Is it a serious sex scene, is a funny sex scene? On one hand the music suggest one thing but Snider shot it too well so I keep thinking it's supposed to be sexy.
It was supposed to be seen as ridiculous in the comic. Dan needed to wear his Nite Owl costume just to get it up. That isn't supposed to be normal.

The comic and movie also had the random fire shooting out of the ship scene at the end.
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Old July 27 2009, 01:55 AM   #884
Chrisisall
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Yassim wrote: View Post

That's what I said - that the original stuff in the movie was interesting, but the direct lifts from the graphic novel were lifeless or missing the point.
Sorry, I was in a hurry to respond, clearly.

This may be just a problem of mine - when it's new, I've got an open mind, but when it looks just like something I know, I expect it to be at least as good as the original.

But I still can't see why a filmmaker would preserve the images and not the feeling of a comic book or graphic novel.
Perhaps it was the intent, if not the outcome. AFAIC, they were as successful as I could have hoped.
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Old July 27 2009, 05:31 AM   #885
M'rk, son of Mogh
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Dream wrote: View Post
I liked that in the movie the Comedian actually tried to fight back. In the comic it seemed like he just stood there and let himself be killed by Veidt.
See, now I thought that scene missed the whole point of what the scene was actually about. That the Comedian had given up, he saw the punchline to the joke of life, he knew it was coming, there was someone in the past who had so fully embraced life and what he believed it to be broken and not willing to fight for it any more.

The movie totally turned that around, not only missing the point, but taking the complete opposite one.
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