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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie
A+ 49 16.78%
A 66 22.60%
A- 56 19.18%
B+ 34 11.64%
B 24 8.22%
B- 16 5.48%
C+ 13 4.45%
C 9 3.08%
C- 5 1.71%
D+ 2 0.68%
D 9 3.08%
D- 5 1.71%
F 4 1.37%
Voters: 292. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 2 2009, 05:14 PM   #766
Norrin Radd
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Trek4Ever wrote: View Post
Part of the problem with Watchmen is that aside from the comic book fans, it isn't a well known story. Ask the general public who Nite Owl is and you'd might get a puzzled look. I remember seeing the trailer last year on some preview show and while the male host of the show was very excited, his female co-host had a confused look on her face and said she couldn't tell what the movie was about. Even though I knew I had to see her point, while many might have been oohing and ahhing over seeing Dr. Manhattan blowing apart Viet Cong troops the average viewer wouldn't know what that sequence was about.
My philosophy is that a good enough movie will get audiences in the theatres, no matter if they have no pre-existing knowledge of the characters. Indeed, doesn't it happen all the time in movies that come from original scripts?
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Old April 2 2009, 07:43 PM   #767
Caligula
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
Caligula wrote: View Post
One thing Watchmen's characters have going for them is that they are presented exactly as who they are in the original graphic novel.
Except for Laurie, whose story arc was totally gutted. They couldn't even take 2 seconds to give us an idea of really how much she HATED the Comedian. That whole aspect was so wishy-washy that the revelation of the Comedian being her father just fell flat on its face.
I'll conceed that one, yeah. Still that's only one of them they didn't get quite right.
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Old April 2 2009, 08:06 PM   #768
Dream
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Caligula wrote: View Post
It will undoubtably play much better on DVD, once the remaining scenes are restored. Especially since not everyone can be asked to sit for three hour periods to watch a movie they may or may not dig. Which is why the enormity of the success of the Lord of the Rings and Pirates of the Caribbean trilogies came as a surprise to me.
LOTR and POTC are long but those movies scream cool for the general public. LOTR has hobbits, wizards and the beautiful Middle Earth setting while POTC has pirates, the caribbean setting, and it's fun.

I don't think Watchmen would have done much better if it was much shorter. It's a very dark movie and complicated to keep track of the story if you don't read the comic. Watchmen is something that you watch once in a while.
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Old April 3 2009, 12:58 AM   #769
Yassim
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Caligula wrote: View Post
The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
Caligula wrote: View Post
One thing Watchmen's characters have going for them is that they are presented exactly as who they are in the original graphic novel.
Except for Laurie, whose story arc was totally gutted. They couldn't even take 2 seconds to give us an idea of really how much she HATED the Comedian. That whole aspect was so wishy-washy that the revelation of the Comedian being her father just fell flat on its face.
I'll conceed that one, yeah. Still that's only one of them they didn't get quite right.
They did an interesting, if not definitive, job with Dr. Manhattan, but they totally lost the idea that his humanity drifted away with time, as he grew used to his powers.

They totally ruined Adrian Veidt. He bore almost no resemblance to the character from the story, and was virtually twirling his moustache all the way through.

So of Nite Owl, Dr. Manhattan, Silk Spectre, the Comedian (who didn't really have an arc), Rorschach and Ozymandias, they got three and a half out of six right. Not great.
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Old April 3 2009, 10:56 AM   #770
Sci
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Caligula wrote: View Post
davidant32 wrote: View Post
Can someone explain to me what all the Egyptian religion was at the end?
Well, he took the name of Ozymandias, which is just another name for the Egyptian pharaoh Rameses II (most famously portrayed on-screen by Yul Brenner in The Ten Commandments). Adrian Veidt had a fascination for men like him and Alexander the Great. Not sure what else to say other than that.
Well, it's also a reference to the famous poem by Percy Bysshe Shelley, about a man who has built an empire which in spite of his pretensions at invincibility has long since turned to dust.
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Old April 3 2009, 11:04 AM   #771
JoeZhang
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Caligula wrote: View Post
The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
Caligula wrote: View Post
One thing Watchmen's characters have going for them is that they are presented exactly as who they are in the original graphic novel.
Except for Laurie, whose story arc was totally gutted. They couldn't even take 2 seconds to give us an idea of really how much she HATED the Comedian. That whole aspect was so wishy-washy that the revelation of the Comedian being her father just fell flat on its face.
I'll conceed that one, yeah. Still that's only one of them they didn't get quite right.
Well that and the fact that they turned her and Dan in lethal killers who stab people through the neck without a second though...

What was the actual difference in the film between them and Rorschach? They all murdered people without blinking.
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Old April 3 2009, 08:45 PM   #772
Caligula
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Sci wrote: View Post
Caligula wrote: View Post
davidant32 wrote: View Post
Can someone explain to me what all the Egyptian religion was at the end?
Well, he took the name of Ozymandias, which is just another name for the Egyptian pharaoh Rameses II (most famously portrayed on-screen by Yul Brenner in The Ten Commandments). Adrian Veidt had a fascination for men like him and Alexander the Great. Not sure what else to say other than that.
Well, it's also a reference to the famous poem by Percy Bysshe Shelley, about a man who has built an empire which in spite of his pretensions at invincibility has long since turned to dust.
Yeah, I knew I was leaving out something. Strange that I would, since it's quoted in the graphic novel at the end of Chapter XI (and, I believe, is also visible as an inscription inside Karnak in the movie).
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Old April 3 2009, 08:59 PM   #773
RobertScorpio
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Caligula wrote: View Post
The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post

Except for Laurie, whose story arc was totally gutted. They couldn't even take 2 seconds to give us an idea of really how much she HATED the Comedian. That whole aspect was so wishy-washy that the revelation of the Comedian being her father just fell flat on its face.
I'll conceed that one, yeah. Still that's only one of them they didn't get quite right.
Well that and the fact that they turned her and Dan in lethal killers who stab people through the neck without a second though...

What was the actual difference in the film between them and Rorschach? They all murdered people without blinking.
Which is why I hate this kind of comic book material..and the movies they spawn. I only went to this movie because my friend got my ticket for me. The fact there were just five people on a friday night gives me hope. This kind of movie only attracts the very few...thank the Lords of Kobol!!!

Rob
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Old April 3 2009, 09:03 PM   #774
Garak
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Finally got around to seeing it, and I thought it was one of the better movies I'd seen in some time. Gave it an A.

Liked the characters, liked the plot and how it was woven in with flashbacks and I like the overall appearance of the movie, great effects.
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Old April 3 2009, 09:07 PM   #775
Dream
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

RobertScorpio wrote: View Post
Which is why I hate this kind of comic book material..and the movies they spawn. I only went to this movie because my friend got my ticket for me. The fact there were just five people on a friday night gives me hope. This kind of movie only attracts the very few...thank the Lords of Kobol!!!

Rob
Well the movie has been out for a few weeks now. There was bound to be less people watching in theaters. It doesn't mean that only a few people like it.
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Old April 3 2009, 09:14 PM   #776
RobertScorpio
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Dream wrote: View Post
RobertScorpio wrote: View Post
Which is why I hate this kind of comic book material..and the movies they spawn. I only went to this movie because my friend got my ticket for me. The fact there were just five people on a friday night gives me hope. This kind of movie only attracts the very few...thank the Lords of Kobol!!!

Rob
Well the movie has been out for a few weeks now. There was bound to be less people watching in theaters. It doesn't mean that only a few people like it.
I saw it the second friday it was out...no excuse. The only movie I saw on the second friday that had worse attendence? (I was there with two friends) Nemesis...

Rob
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Old April 3 2009, 09:33 PM   #777
Dream
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

RobertScorpio wrote: View Post
I saw it the second friday it was out...no excuse. The only movie I saw on the second friday that had worse attendence? (I was there with two friends) Nemesis...

Rob
Your city must really hate Watchmen. There were plenty of people the second time I went which was by the third weekend. Well at least Watchmen won't do as badly as Nemesis.
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Old April 3 2009, 10:32 PM   #778
Caligula
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Dream wrote: View Post
RobertScorpio wrote: View Post
I saw it the second friday it was out...no excuse. The only movie I saw on the second friday that had worse attendence? (I was there with two friends) Nemesis...

Rob
Your city must really hate Watchmen. There were plenty of people the second time I went which was by the third weekend. Well at least Watchmen won't do as badly as Nemesis.
Indeed not!

Star Trek: Nemesis pulled in a measly $43 million. That's crap even in Star Trek film numbers!! Watchmen, while it still hasn't turned a profit (and won't at this rate), has still earned $104 million and is currently 3rd in 2009 domestic box office, and 2nd in 2009 Worldwide box office. Granted, it'll fall down the chart once the summer movies hit theaters, but it's not the epic failure it's made out to be.
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Old April 3 2009, 11:07 PM   #779
Myasishchev
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Quothz wrote: View Post

Snyder's error, I felt, was the same as his other mistakes: he overdid it. He had Veigt attack multiple cities; the disaster lost some impact by being worldwide. Moore had the right instincts to pick a single city and blow it all to hell; it's easier for the audience to feel the impact of the loss.

(The book's mistake was egregious and bothered me immediately; the octopus was partially engineered from the brain of a "psychic sensitive", and was in part a big psychic bomb. But the book never laid any groundwork for psychically sensitive people. Moore just assumed we'd accept that the world would have psychic folks, that they were recognized generally, and that somehow they had no impact on history.)
I agree with this.

Firstly, vaporizing multiple cities in order to avert a nuclear war is like killing five hostages to save the sixth.

I don't see why several cities were necessary to drive the point home when one would have sufficed--it seemed totally gratuitous on Veidt's part. New York is dead: do we need to see Moscow and a half dozen other metropoles laid waste to know that John Osterman is Pissed?

Secondly, in the book, the squid was of course a powerful WMD but one immediately obviously different in kind from a nuke. In the film, the Manhattan Power or whatever Veidt was using was really not. Add the multiple cities attacked, and there would have been a very good chance that the United States, Soviet Union, or both, particularly at the level of alert they were operating, would have retaliated immediately.

I will admit that there's an argument against that. Countervalue attacks, namely the destruction of enemy cities, are entirely pointless as part of any rational first strike plan, as it is vitally important to use your own nuclear weapons to target enemy strategic nuclear forces to the exclusion of all else. If NYC blew up tomorrow, we would not look toward Russia or China; even in the 1980s, it would be so puzzling as to warrant investigation.

I'll point out however that Moscow, the Soviet capital, was destroyed by Veidt. The resulting chaos, opacity of information, and absolute need for speed in decisionmaking could easily have led to the Soviet authorities still alive ordering a retaliatory strike with whatever (they believed) they had left.
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Old April 3 2009, 11:16 PM   #780
Ethros
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

I finished watching Watchmen: The Motion Comic DVD last night. Great stuff, although it does perhaps drag in places. You can see why the film wasn't 100% faithful, as like the MC it would have been nearly 6 hours long

The Tales of the Black Freighter DVD isn't out on Region 2 until Monday 6th April, so I'll be getting that then.

And I think my local cinema is winding down its showings of the movie now, so I'll be making a third and final trip to see it tomorrow night for the late showing
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