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View Poll Results: Grade the movie
A+ 49 16.78%
A 66 22.60%
A- 56 19.18%
B+ 34 11.64%
B 24 8.22%
B- 16 5.48%
C+ 13 4.45%
C 9 3.08%
C- 5 1.71%
D+ 2 0.68%
D 9 3.08%
D- 5 1.71%
F 4 1.37%
Voters: 292. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 24 2009, 06:09 PM   #736
3D Master
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

dkehler wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
Yassim wrote: View Post
In my mind, Ozy didn't really "catch" the bullet. It was more a case of making sure to get shot in the hand.
If he got shot in the hand, there would be a hole in the hand, and bullet would be lying somewhere beyond.

He indeed caught the bullet.
What if he had some kind of bullet proof material over his palm? It looked to me like he might have had exactly that in the movie.
Then:

a. The impact would still bruise his hand beyond recognition.

and;

b. The bullet would most likely be lying on the floor; a glove is thin, so it can't be like a kevlar vest that is thick enough to slow the bullet down and capture it in its threads; it'd bounce of and fall to the floor instead.

He caught the bullet.

dkehler wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
Yassim wrote: View Post
In my mind, Ozy didn't really "catch" the bullet. It was more a case of making sure to get shot in the hand.
If he got shot in the hand, there would be a hole in the hand, and bullet would be lying somewhere beyond.

He indeed caught the bullet.
What if he had some kind of bullet proof material over his palm? It looked to me like he might have had exactly that in the movie.
Then:

a. The impact would still bruise his hand beyond recognition.

and;

b. The bullet would most likely be lying on the floor; a glove is thin, so it can't be like a kevlar vest that is thick enough to slow the bullet down and capture it in its threads; it'd bounce of and fall to the floor instead.

He caught the bullet.

Praetor wrote: View Post
That suit/armor might have helped, too. And for what it's worth, he bled.
I didn't see any bleeding.
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Old March 24 2009, 06:17 PM   #737
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

^ It is conceivable that Dr. Manhattan or Adrian himself has come up with a material that is both thin enough to wear on his hand yet be capable of stopping a bullet.

Also, it looked like there was blood to me.
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Old March 24 2009, 06:25 PM   #738
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Ethros wrote: View Post
btw, maybe a silly question, but how does Rorschach see with his mask on?
It's probably like the eyes in the Father Death mask from SCREAM, you can see through the micro mesh (?) quite well.

Now, the ink blots changing shape...that's wacky.
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Old March 24 2009, 06:50 PM   #739
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

finally seen this movie, was quite dark, very dark, which is good, im wondering how the comic book ended, because the ending was very upbeat for the movie, and Doctor Manhatten assessment of man king.

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
Which is fine, but I do agree it blurs the line between "normal people dressing up as superheroes" (besides Dr. Manhattan) to flat-out superheroes with super abilities.
ill agree with that as well.

I will say I assumed there was something about the glove that meant he was able to catch the bullet without too much being done
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Old March 25 2009, 01:08 AM   #740
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

side note is it just me or did the "Silk Spectre" remind anyone else of the Margot Kidder Lois Lane?
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Old March 25 2009, 01:20 AM   #741
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

MeanJoePhaser wrote: View Post
Ethros wrote: View Post
btw, maybe a silly question, but how does Rorschach see with his mask on?
It's probably like the eyes in the Father Death mask from SCREAM, you can see through the micro mesh (?) quite well.

Now, the ink blots changing shape...that's wacky.
Well his mask was originally designed to be a dress so he shouldn't of been able to see though it. It's one of those little things I can forgive though.

The reason the ink blots change shape is because Doctor Manhattan created the material. They don't explain that at all in the movie.
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Old March 25 2009, 01:29 AM   #742
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

dkehler wrote: View Post
^ It is conceivable that Dr. Manhattan or Adrian himself has come up with a material that is both thin enough to wear on his hand yet be capable of stopping a bullet.

Also, it looked like there was blood to me.
I never said he couldn't, but the moment you have something that is thin, you also have something that is not thick enough to slow a bullet down slowly and trap it in the material. The moment you have something that is thin and can yet stop a bullet, the bullet simply bounces off.
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Old March 25 2009, 02:52 AM   #743
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

dkehler wrote: View Post
^ It is conceivable that Dr. Manhattan or Adrian himself has come up with a material that is both thin enough to wear on his hand yet be capable of stopping a bullet.

Also, it looked like there was blood to me.
I watched it twice on Imax, it's too big to miss on an imax screen, it's stuck in his hand (but only slightly), he pulls it out, so it's broke the material, whatever it is.
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Old March 25 2009, 02:54 AM   #744
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

3D Master wrote: View Post
dkehler wrote: View Post
^ It is conceivable that Dr. Manhattan or Adrian himself has come up with a material that is both thin enough to wear on his hand yet be capable of stopping a bullet.

Also, it looked like there was blood to me.
I never said he couldn't, but the moment you have something that is thin, you also have something that is not thick enough to slow a bullet down slowly and trap it in the material. The moment you have something that is thin and can yet stop a bullet, the bullet simply bounces off.
But you have no problem with suspending disbelief for the Owlship or the giant Blue Man who travels through time and space?
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Old March 25 2009, 03:07 AM   #745
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

This is a valid point.
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Old March 25 2009, 03:30 AM   #746
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

I finally saw this film last night. I didn't like 300 and was fearing for the action sequences. I hated that quick-stop-quick action style more than anything, but at least it seems to kinda work at some spots.
I have not read the book.
Overall, its clear that theyw ere slavishly trying to adapt something page for page that they forgot to do what Jackson and his team did for adapting Lord of the Rings, which is to actually reduce the story to its bare essence... and write screenplay for that, while gradually adding the exquisite detail of the book whenever possible. As a result, LOTR played like a film that anyone could understand, despite the level of complexities.

This film seemed to be so close ot the book that they lost their own objectivity. There were extended flashback stoey-tellling sequences for the Comedian and Manhattan that were just placed randomly in the film, and between those two flashbacks (which were very long) was a few lines of dialogue in present day like "we have to find the comedian".

The idea that somehow everythingis like a practical joke was said more than once in the film, each time it came awkwarddly out of the mouths of whoever said it. It's interesting that this philosophy is the Comedian's raison d'tre, but since we only this character from flashbacks and what other characters say about him, the way this underlying reason for his why he is sosinister is delievered through awkward exposition.

I was lost in the early parts of thefilm, as characters were there that I didn't know. Sometimes that technique works in a film, but here it only partially did. It was wired.

I liked Nite Oil. To me he was both Superman and Batman combined into one character. I mean he didn't have Superman powrs, but he's regular persona was more like the mild-mannered Clark Kent than the playboy Bruce Wayne. I liked the fact that he couldn't get it up without the costumes causing thearousal.

The bad guy plot and his base were all failry terrible. The base itself seemed like a bad set, and was more excuseable (and almost exactly like) Dr. Noah's base in "Our Man Bashir." (DS9)

Movies with true ensembles rather than one or two main characters are difficult to pull off. iad more this one for trying, but I didn't know which charcter to really get behind. I guess rorshack. hewas kinda coo even if his lines were overwriteten (I know I know it was all from the book).

I liked all the references to time, the eleventh houtr, five minutes to the end. The spot of bood on the smiley pin wantdered near that area (if the pin is clockface) Even the bathroom door swinging back and forth in the prison bathroom was lick a ticking clock (that was Snyder's best directors' moment for me)

So there you go. B-.
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Old March 25 2009, 04:02 AM   #747
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

Tuln wrote: View Post
Overall, its clear that theyw ere slavishly trying to adapt something page for page that they forgot to do what Jackson and his team did for adapting Lord of the Rings, which is to actually reduce the story to its bare essence... and write screenplay for that, while gradually adding the exquisite detail of the book whenever possible. As a result, LOTR played like a film that anyone could understand, despite the level of complexities.
That's kinda what I've been saying all along. But whereas The Lord of the Rings can be reduced to one bare central story (Frodo must take the One Ring to Mt. Doom), Watchmen never had that strong spine. That's what makes Watchmen so difficult (impossible, IMO) to adapt well.

Movies with true ensembles rather than one or two main characters are difficult to pull off. iad more this one for trying, but I didn't know which charcter to really get behind.
That's another fundamental fact about the book that makes it work better as a book than a movie. The book is a true ensemble piece and doesn't particularly side with any of the characters. Books are better at getting away with telling sprawling stories that don't have a real "rooting interest." All of the characters have their various moments in the spotlight but none for more than an issue or 2. Nite Owl is probably the most conventional hero but he ultimately comes across as a bit of a lightweight. Dr. Manhattan is so far removed from humanity that it's difficult to relate to him at all. Rorschach is a dangerous, unstable psychopath (who got a bit over-glorified in the movie). Laurie is the most dynamic character of the bunch but her catharsis when she discovers that the Comedian is her father is kinda removed from the larger issues regarding Ozymandias' plot and so forth.

In a way, I suppose the book kinda takes things from Dr. Manhattan's perspective in that events are somewhat non-linear and are presented entirely without judgment.
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Old March 25 2009, 04:06 AM   #748
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
Tuln wrote: View Post
Overall, its clear that theyw ere slavishly trying to adapt something page for page that they forgot to do what Jackson and his team did for adapting Lord of the Rings, which is to actually reduce the story to its bare essence... and write screenplay for that, while gradually adding the exquisite detail of the book whenever possible. As a result, LOTR played like a film that anyone could understand, despite the level of complexities.
That's kinda what I've been saying all along. But whereas The Lord of the Rings can be reduced to one bare central story (Frodo must take the One Ring to Mt. Doom), Watchmen never had that strong spine. That's what makes Watchmen so difficult (impossible, IMO) to adapt well.

Movies with true ensembles rather than one or two main characters are difficult to pull off. iad more this one for trying, but I didn't know which charcter to really get behind.
That's another fundamental fact about the book that makes it work better as a book than a movie. The book is a true ensemble piece and doesn't particularly side with any of the characters. Books are better at getting away with telling sprawling stories that don't have a real "rooting interest." All of the characters have their various moments in the spotlight but none for more than an issue or 2. Nite Owl is probably the most conventional hero but he ultimately comes across as a bit of a lightweight. Dr. Manhattan is so far removed from humanity that it's difficult to relate to him at all. Rorschach is a dangerous, unstable psychopath (who got a bit over-glorified in the movie). Laurie is the most dynamic character of the bunch but her catharsis when she discovers that the Comedian is her father is kinda removed from the larger issues regarding Ozymandias' plot and so forth.

In a way, I suppose the book kinda takes things from Dr. Manhattan's perspective in that events are somewhat non-linear and are presented entirely without judgment.

yeah I agree it takes his perspective. Of course, it's very late in the story that we actually learn who he is.
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Old March 25 2009, 04:59 AM   #749
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

^And I mean that in more of a metaphorical way than a literal one.
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Old March 25 2009, 05:22 AM   #750
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Re: WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

ah I see.

The question is whether Snyder and the screenwriters (not: not the original comic writers) are talented enough to tell a story from a non-linear perspective and have it be coherent. This kind of story telling challenges even the greatest directors.

In allWatchman seems like a sequel to a film I've not seen, and not even much of a sequel, but the film deliberately there to just tie up loose threads from a film i've never seen rahter than a coherent story that is either new or builds from a previous story. Yet if it truely was a sequel, than you wouldn't have needed the awkward 20 minutes each to explain in flashbacks the stories of Manhatten and Comedian, becuase that would have been covere din the "first" film.
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