Watchmen movie ending blows... - Page 4

Thrall · March 4 2009, 12:55 AM

Did you even read my post? He did not use the names and titles of other people's works and put his own name on it. He used archtypes created by others gave them his own names and wrote his own story to go with it. Doc Manhattan wasn't blamed in the book and shouldn't get the blame in the film. It would be like ending Return Of The King by having Sam destroy the ring.

I can understand cutting parts out for time constraints but I cannot support putting in parts that never occurred in the established story.

I wasn't talking about The Watchmen. I was talking about his League of Extraordinary Gentlemen series.

trevanian · March 4 2009, 03:24 AM

I love the graphic novel (every time!), but this ending sounds ... better.

The book references the OL ep ARCHITECTS OF FEAR, for the earth-manufactureed alien threat, but the best rendition of this theme I came across I read when I was 9 or 10. It was (don't laugh) a Martin Caidin book, done before CYBORG and I believe after MAROONED, called THE MENDELOV CONSPIRACY (though it has been reissued under other titles, like ENCOUNTER THREE.)

It has the Einstein/Hawking/Pournelle types of earth uniting to create a fake ET threat to get the planet on one page together, but the plan doesn't take into account human stubborness and their willlingness to die just to say fuck you to bullies. The hero (I always saw it as Darren MacGavin, which is funny because a Young mcGavin could have been Rorscharch) tells them they have to do more than scare people, they have to really make them go nuts so their NERVA powered saucers wind up blasting a ton of nuclear plants until people in the streets are getting the message and destroying them on their own. It is a really brutal climax, but it achieves the desired result (and I am by no means doing it justice in the retelling.)

I was scared of how they would mess this up, but the idea they improved on near-perfection? Can't wait to see this!

Strider · March 4 2009, 04:58 AM

If you don't like the movie, hell, the graphic novel will still be there right where ya left it! It's almost like the Watchmen movie is a seperate entity from the comic!

Davros · March 4 2009, 06:52 PM

Thrall wrote:

Did you even read my post? He did not use the names and titles of other people's works and put his own name on it. He used archtypes created by others gave them his own names and wrote his own story to go with it. Doc Manhattan wasn't blamed in the book and shouldn't get the blame in the film. It would be like ending Return Of The King by having Sam destroy the ring.

I can understand cutting parts out for time constraints but I cannot support putting in parts that never occurred in the established story.

I wasn't talking about The Watchmen. I was talking about his League of Extraordinary Gentlemen series.

Using characters from other works in a new story is not the same thing as using an existing story and altering it.

don't get me wrong, I'm going to give this movie a chance and have already bought my ticket. I just do not think this change should have been made.
I did not like seeing the elves show up at Helms Deep either but I still paid to see the next instalment in the series.

Technobuilder · March 4 2009, 09:59 PM

The problem with hearing all these years that Watchmen is "The Graphic Novel" or so good it "turns lead into gold", or what have you, is that after a while, it takes on the air of Required Reading.

Now, I've known that the Watchmen comic would be a great read, but knowing this after so long a time, I almost wasn't sure I should bother. I mean... Could the built-up perception of Perfection in my head could survive the reality of reading the genuine article? So I never got around to it.

Thus, having never read the book, though knowing a lot about the characters just from years and years of it being referenced/discussed, I have to say that when I saw the movie this past monday night, I thought it was a very enjoyable film. Especially so, for someone with no clue about the overall conclusion as I'd always made it a point to avoid the ending of the novel.

Now that I've seen the movie, I think I'm going to enjoy the book oh-so-much more than if I'd just read it cold.

Totally worth it.

miraclefan · March 4 2009, 11:15 PM

Admiral James Kirk wrote:

^ I know exactly what you mean! I was so pissed at Steven Spielberg when he made Jaws! I mean Hooper lives at the ending of the movie? What happened to him getting bit in half? What the fuck was up with Chief Brody blowing the shark up? Didn't Spielberg read the book? The shark died slowly from wound incurred over the course of the shark hunt. AND WHAT THE FUCK WAS UP WITH QUINT? He didn't get bit in half in the book. He wasn't a survivor of the Indianapolis tragedy in that book. And that speech. THAT FUCKING SPEECH! THAT WASN"T IN THE BOOK! IT RUINED THE WHOLE FUCKING MOVIE FOR ME! How dare Spielberg put in parts in the movie that weren't in the book. Fuck what's cinematic! He shoulda been a slave to the material!

I take it you're being ''sarcastic''?

JacksonArcher · March 5 2009, 01:07 AM

No. He's dead serious.

Turtletrekker · March 10 2009, 01:34 AM

Skywalker wrote:

dkehler wrote:

Davros wrote:

When translating a work from page to screen there should be an obligation to be true to the original work.

If you want to change the story, then don't use the same title because you are not telling the same tale.

Ridiculous. And from what I've heard, the spirit of the story remains intact. Probably more so than just about any comic adaptation to date.

And that's really the only thing that matters.

Exactly. And the only major change to the story was the nature of the lie that is told to the people. Personally I think that this ending works much better for the big screen.

Admiral Buzzkill · March 10 2009, 01:44 AM

Having seen this now...

The new ending is better. It works much better in story and thematic terms for the movie than the Interdimensional Squid would have.

It probably would not have been a real strong visual climax for the graphic novel. That said, I didn't find the whole Squid plot to be a strong point of the novel; it was, in fact, kind of silly and out of left field.

In both cases - the novel and the movie - the real meat of the ending is in the differing responses of the other Watchmen to the enormity of Adrian's crime. Those reactions are similar, if not identical, in both versions so the really interesting aspects of Moore's ending remain intact.

MIB · March 10 2009, 02:06 AM

You can also count me amongst those who thought the movie ending worked. While faking an extradimensional invasion would have been interesting in the movie, even in the comic it came out of left-field in my opinion. However there was one thing about the ending that did kind of annoy me. Namely, it was how it more or less went out of its way to condemn Viedt's actions with Dan freaking out and acting holier than thou about it while in the book he was far more rational/less reactionary about the ordeal.

Viedt's actions may have been beyond brutal, but considering Humanity was hours away from nuking itself into extinction I personally couldn't turn away from begrudgingly accepting his actions.

iguana_tonante · March 10 2009, 02:08 AM

T'Baio wrote:

Spoiler alert. Duh.

I just read how Snyder has changed the ending, from the Squid thing to making bombs from Dr. Manhattan's powers, bombing cities and uniting the world against Dr. Manhattan?

That fucking sucks.

I'm glad to see you are giving the movie the benefit of the bout and waiting to actually see it before making any judgment.

Thrall wrote:

Tell that to Alan Moore when he turned characters from classic works of literature into sexual and social deviants and had the audacity to try and pretend it was art.

Rorschach? Is it you?

(sorry but the "sexual deviants" was an easy mark

)

JuanBolio · March 10 2009, 02:41 AM

I thought the ending fit perfectly. From what I've heard, the fake alien invasion seems a little... strange, visually cool though it may be.

Besides, with two endings there's just more to enjoy.

Klaus · March 10 2009, 03:17 AM

OK, here's my take on the ending, and for the record I've loved the book for years and saw the movie on opening night...

I think that in an odd way the two versions balance each other out. The movie ending made me go back and re-think the book's, and I think the thematic elements work about the same.

In the book we are asked to accept that people will believe that the giant squid is an alien from another dimension, and that its attack on NYC represents the potential first wave of a general war on the human race even though only one place was targeted... and that the Soviet Union, after decades of paranoia and expansionism, will accept this tale at face value -- and hold back from the brink of a nuclear attack which might well have been best launched right after the squidding while CREEPs were trying to figure out what the frak have just happened, with an opportunity likely never to be had again while Dr. M was gone -- and decide that world peace and WW2 style alliance needs to be done immediately.

The movie posits that an American-created [albeit accidentally] superbeing with godlike powers runs amok and slaughters millions all across the globe, including multiple targets in America, thus showing that his origin means nothing and that he is both willing to and capable of killing millions without compunction. At the end Jon really has become God... he forces the mortals to cooperate and play nice together at the peril of him smiting them, and them goes off to more interesting things and leaves their everyday lives with only the threat of his wrath. Sounds like God to me.

I think those at least balance and that you can make an argument that the movie makes more sense.

Admiral Buzzkill · March 10 2009, 03:32 AM

MIB wrote:

Viedt's actions may have been beyond brutal, but considering Humanity was hours away from nuking itself into extinction I personally couldn't turn away from begrudgingly accepting his actions.

Of course, Veidt had pushed the world a lot closer to Armageddon by driving Manhattan off-planet.

Norrin Radd · March 10 2009, 03:47 AM

The movie scenario could cause the rest of the world to blame the Americans since they're the ones who are perceived as creating Manhattan, influencing Manhattan, and using him as a living weapon. So when Manhattan starts killing Americans they're like "oh too bad". Then when Manhattan starts killing them, they're like "those fucking Americans...look what they've let loose". Then when they inevitably start bickering again and realize that Manhattan isn't coming back like he threatened, the whole thing falls apart.

March 4 2009, 03:24 AM	#47
trevanian Rear Admiral	Re: Watchmen movie ending blows... I love the graphic novel (every time!), but this ending sounds ... better. The book references the OL ep ARCHITECTS OF FEAR, for the earth-manufactureed alien threat, but the best rendition of this theme I came across I read when I was 9 or 10. It was (don't laugh) a Martin Caidin book, done before CYBORG and I believe after MAROONED, called THE MENDELOV CONSPIRACY (though it has been reissued under other titles, like ENCOUNTER THREE.) It has the Einstein/Hawking/Pournelle types of earth uniting to create a fake ET threat to get the planet on one page together, but the plan doesn't take into account human stubborness and their willlingness to die just to say fuck you to bullies. The hero (I always saw it as Darren MacGavin, which is funny because a Young mcGavin could have been Rorscharch) tells them they have to do more than scare people, they have to really make them go nuts so their NERVA powered saucers wind up blasting a ton of nuclear plants until people in the streets are getting the message and destroying them on their own. It is a really brutal climax, but it achieves the desired result (and I am by no means doing it justice in the retelling.) I was scared of how they would mess this up, but the idea they improved on near-perfection? Can't wait to see this!

March 4 2009, 04:58 AM	#48
Strider Fleet Captain Location: USA	Re: Watchmen movie ending blows... If you don't like the movie, hell, the graphic novel will still be there right where ya left it! It's almost like the Watchmen movie is a seperate entity from the comic!

March 4 2009, 09:59 PM	#50
Technobuilder Commodore Location: Nashville, TN	Re: Watchmen movie ending blows... The problem with hearing all these years that Watchmen is "The Graphic Novel" or so good it "turns lead into gold", or what have you, is that after a while, it takes on the air of Required Reading. Now, I've known that the Watchmen comic would be a great read, but knowing this after so long a time, I almost wasn't sure I should bother. I mean... Could the built-up perception of Perfection in my head could survive the reality of reading the genuine article? So I never got around to it. Thus, having never read the book, though knowing a lot about the characters just from years and years of it being referenced/discussed, I have to say that when I saw the movie this past monday night, I thought it was a very enjoyable film. Especially so, for someone with no clue about the overall conclusion as I'd always made it a point to avoid the ending of the novel. Now that I've seen the movie, I think I'm going to enjoy the book oh-so-much more than if I'd just read it cold. Totally worth it. __________________ "You fool! You've fallen victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous of which is "Never get involved in a land war in Asia", but only slightly less well known is this - "Never go in against a Sicilian, when death is on the line!"

March 5 2009, 01:07 AM	#52
JacksonArcher Vice Admiral	Re: Watchmen movie ending blows... No. He's dead serious. __________________ Bane: "When Gotham is ashes... you have my permission to die." - The Dark Knight Rises

March 10 2009, 01:44 AM	#54
Admiral Buzzkill The Man Location: Defying Gravity	Re: Watchmen movie ending blows... Having seen this now... The new ending is better. It works much better in story and thematic terms for the movie than the Interdimensional Squid would have. It probably would not have been a real strong visual climax for the graphic novel. That said, I didn't find the whole Squid plot to be a strong point of the novel; it was, in fact, kind of silly and out of left field. In both cases - the novel and the movie - the real meat of the ending is in the differing responses of the other Watchmen to the enormity of Adrian's crime. Those reactions are similar, if not identical, in both versions so the really interesting aspects of Moore's ending remain intact. __________________ I had steak and a loaded baked potato for dinner on Sunday. As a steak I enjoyed it a lot, but as macaroni and cheese I thought it was disappointing.

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March 10 2009, 02:06 AM	#55
MIB Rear Admiral Location: Someplace where I can watch you	Re: Watchmen movie ending blows... You can also count me amongst those who thought the movie ending worked. While faking an extradimensional invasion would have been interesting in the movie, even in the comic it came out of left-field in my opinion. However there was one thing about the ending that did kind of annoy me. Namely, it was how it more or less went out of its way to condemn Viedt's actions with Dan freaking out and acting holier than thou about it while in the book he was far more rational/less reactionary about the ordeal. Viedt's actions may have been beyond brutal, but considering Humanity was hours away from nuking itself into extinction I personally couldn't turn away from begrudgingly accepting his actions. __________________ The sooner we get this relief in the hands of the American people, the sooner they can begin to do their job of being good consumers.--Rep. John Boehner, R-Ohio Government: To them we are not citizens anymore. We're mindless machines.

March 10 2009, 02:41 AM	#57
JuanBolio Admiral Location: Florida Keys, USA	Re: Watchmen movie ending blows... I thought the ending fit perfectly. From what I've heard, the fake alien invasion seems a little... strange, visually cool though it may be. Besides, with two endings there's just more to enjoy. __________________ Never fear! JuanBolio wuz here! This has been an official JuanBolio post. You are now stronger, smarter, and a better human being for having read it. Congratulations.

March 10 2009, 03:17 AM	#58
Klaus Rear Admiral Location: Klaus - Beach condo, Bay of Eldamar	Re: Watchmen movie ending blows... OK, here's my take on the ending, and for the record I've loved the book for years and saw the movie on opening night... I think that in an odd way the two versions balance each other out. The movie ending made me go back and re-think the book's, and I think the thematic elements work about the same. In the book we are asked to accept that people will believe that the giant squid is an alien from another dimension, and that its attack on NYC represents the potential first wave of a general war on the human race even though only one place was targeted... and that the Soviet Union, after decades of paranoia and expansionism, will accept this tale at face value -- and hold back from the brink of a nuclear attack which might well have been best launched right after the squidding while CREEPs were trying to figure out what the frak have just happened, with an opportunity likely never to be had again while Dr. M was gone -- and decide that world peace and WW2 style alliance needs to be done immediately. The movie posits that an American-created [albeit accidentally] superbeing with godlike powers runs amok and slaughters millions all across the globe, including multiple targets in America, thus showing that his origin means nothing and that he is both willing to and capable of killing millions without compunction. At the end Jon really has become God... he forces the mortals to cooperate and play nice together at the peril of him smiting them, and them goes off to more interesting things and leaves their everyday lives with only the threat of his wrath. Sounds like God to me. I think those at least balance and that you can make an argument that the movie makes more sense. __________________ "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain http://tlbklaus.deviantart.com

March 10 2009, 03:47 AM	#60
Norrin Radd Vice Admiral	Re: Watchmen movie ending blows... The movie scenario could cause the rest of the world to blame the Americans since they're the ones who are perceived as creating Manhattan, influencing Manhattan, and using him as a living weapon. So when Manhattan starts killing Americans they're like "oh too bad". Then when Manhattan starts killing them, they're like "those fucking Americans...look what they've let loose". Then when they inevitably start bickering again and realize that Manhattan isn't coming back like he threatened, the whole thing falls apart.