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View Poll Results: Grade "Some Must Watch, While Some Must Sleep"
"I'll be back." (Excellent) 4 7.41%
"Come with me if you want to live." (Above Average) 19 35.19%
"Thank you for explaining" (Average) 11 20.37%
"Hasta la vista, Baby." (Below Average) 12 22.22%
"You are terminated." (Poor) 8 14.81%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 1 2009, 08:20 AM   #91
Guy Gardener
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

How about 26 1/2 hour episodes?

I'm amazed about what can be done with the half hour drama set up after watching Weeds and Cali fornication and even The United States of Tara. It's not my imagination that they could probably take any episode ever make of terminator and remove 15 minutes without touching a word of dialog. The expressing and emoting and staring and glaring which seems to impersonate telepathy ion this show takes up too much space.

They cut Ally Mcbeal down into a 1/2 hour format by removing all the court scenes and just focussed on the Ally and friends subplots. I never saw these episodes, but it's refferenced on IMDB and it sounds hilarious if your're a fan of taking a butchers knife to something you know intimately.
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Old March 1 2009, 08:26 AM   #92
LutherSloan
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

Um, I thought that TSCC's ratings were very close to Dollhouse's anyway?
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Old March 1 2009, 08:30 AM   #93
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

Wouter2 wrote: View Post
There seems to be wide disagreement about this episode in various online fora. Either people really like it (the creepy atmosphere and all - it did have that X-files vibe a bit), or they only appreciated the view right above this post.
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Old March 1 2009, 11:33 AM   #94
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
I seen this in TNG, Charmed and Buffy. The fake loony bin. Gods.

This episode was a complete waste of time.
If that's your take on the episode you didn't "get it" at all. It was not as simplistic as "the fake loony bin" because it wasn't fake. She dreamed/hallucinated the whole sleep clinic plot.

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Old March 1 2009, 11:36 AM   #95
Mitty
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

Was very Frame of Mind, but hey it was a mind fuck and I love mind fucks. anything that leaves you feeling disturbed at the end must be good.
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Old March 1 2009, 05:38 PM   #96
Wouter2
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

nx1701g wrote: View Post
Wouldn't it be shocking though if the Three Dots DID represent the logo of Cyberdyne/CRS from the films though...
That's a possibility, Zack did say that the 3 dots would be explained, and not through supernatural means. So it would almost have to be something Sarah can remember (but which seems to be only subconscious, now).

I'm not saying Weaver was not the owner of "Desert heat and air", just that it hasn't been established without any doubt, yet. Weaver is not the only one who can use other companies as fronts, and the parent company of "Desert heat and air" hasn't been established yet as one of the fronts for Weaver.

I love the show, I hope it stays on the air and gets a third season - preferably a full one, though 13 would already be good, especially if it gets a real shot at a 4th season by correct promotion and timeslot (if the 3rd one is definitely the last though, known in advance, 22 eps would be better). I think the marketing of this show as "action" and the emphasis on "terminator" may have been a mistake, it's the Sopranos/BSG audience that TSCC should try to reach in marketing, rather than pure action fans. The latter will be disappointed and will stop watching.

Is Dollhouse any good, anyway? Its premise doesn't sound that interesting, to me (OK, I admit, TSCC's premise didn't sound good to me either, at first). It's all good if it stays in the air, but I doubt replacing TSCC as lead-in would help - sounds as an excuse. If WB has a deal with FOX, I hope this does lead to a 3rd season, and TSCC isn't dropped in an attempt to get Dollhouse more viewers (that will likely fail anyway).
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Old March 1 2009, 06:17 PM   #97
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

I've sick and tired of this lovey-dovey Sarah who feels bad about shooting people. I'd like to see some of that T2 makes-Jack-Bauer-look-soft blow-it-up-and-kill-whoever-gets-in-the-way Sarah that John has to reign in.
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Old March 1 2009, 06:52 PM   #98
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

Wouter2 wrote: View Post
Is Dollhouse any good, anyway?
It's not bad. Not yet up to Joss Whedon's usual standards of awesome, though.
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Old March 1 2009, 07:41 PM   #99
Wouter2
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

hyzmarca wrote: View Post
I've sick and tired of this lovey-dovey Sarah who feels bad about shooting people. I'd like to see some of that T2 makes-Jack-Bauer-look-soft blow-it-up-and-kill-whoever-gets-in-the-way Sarah that John has to reign in.
Well, in that case, the ending of this episode should have made you happy, she executed Winston at point blank, after getting out of her handcuffs in a way that makes Jack Bauer look mere average?
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Old March 1 2009, 07:46 PM   #100
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

Yeah, but the closing monologue suggested that she felt bad about it afterward, which kind of defeats the point.
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Old March 1 2009, 08:16 PM   #101
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

Wouter2 wrote: View Post
I'm not saying Weaver was not the owner of "Desert heat and air", just that it hasn't been established without any doubt, yet. Weaver is not the only one who can use other companies as fronts, and the parent company of "Desert heat and air" hasn't been established yet as one of the fronts for Weaver.
Well, considering John Henry didn't mention the company name or location, and neither did the radio transmission, you can only assume that Weaver knew all about it. Add to that his added information of how much Coltan ZeiraCorp has stockpiled and it makes sense. For it not to be associated with Weaver would just be bad writing, but this show isn't exactly the most logical ever.
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Old March 1 2009, 08:36 PM   #102
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

hyzmarca wrote: View Post
Yeah, but the closing monologue suggested that she felt bad about it afterward, which kind of defeats the point.
I think the closing monologue -about a bad, beautiful, strong witch/spirit which paralyses men and takes their future and their children - is rather supposed to refer to her fears about Cameron.

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Well, considering John Henry didn't mention the company name or location, and neither did the radio transmission, you can only assume that Weaver knew all about it. Add to that his added information of how much Coltan ZeiraCorp has stockpiled and it makes sense. For it not to be associated with Weaver would just be bad writing, but this show isn't exactly the most logical ever.
I think the message intercepted by JH did mention the name explicitly - "desert heat and air", so Weaver probably would have enough to go after it. Zeiracorps has been stockpiling Coltan, but at ±7% of the world supply there is enough room for another player. What about Carter from S1 (the terminator in the air force bunker, possibly still there) - he was stockpiling Coltan as well. He may have been working for Weaver, but considering Weaver was dying to get her hands on a T888 or similar (Ellison giving her one), I doubt it. And I think it would actually be good writing and interesting if Weaver was more than just pure evil, preparing Skynet for the war. There seems to be more in her than that, allthough she kills quickly and without any remorse. She may have a competitor, some group who wants a Skynet different from the one she wants. Winston thought Sarah's son had blown up the facility, so he and his accomplice at least are clearly not aware of Weaver.

As for not being the most logical show ever, probably not, but at least it is a lot better than BSG in this regard.

I listened again and they do say "Heat and air" in the transmission, though I can't make out the word before that. i also noticed that Weaver's attention was only really drawn when the 16 tons of Coltan was mentioned. yes, I think it is certainly possible she has competition. The Apple to Zeiracorps' Microsoft, I suppose.

Last edited by Wouter2; March 1 2009 at 08:51 PM.
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Old March 1 2009, 09:45 PM   #103
Ryan8bit
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

Wouter2 wrote: View Post
I think the message intercepted by JH did mention the name explicitly - "desert heat and air", so Weaver probably would have enough to go after it.
Like you said, it was just "heat and air", and that's pretty vague to be able to track them down. It could be enough, I suppose. But then when why send Walsh to find the missing employee? How did she know? It's possible she looked it all up on the computer, but again that seems to be more of a stretch.

What about Carter from S1 (the terminator in the air force bunker, possibly still there) - he was stockpiling Coltan as well. He may have been working for Weaver, but considering Weaver was dying to get her hands on a T888 or similar (Ellison giving her one), I doubt it.
I doubt it too, but not for story reasons. Carter is basically a forgotten element, even though he should've easily been able to escape that facility. I'm almost certain that Weaver wasn't really thought of at that point.

As for an in-story reason, it's obvious that Weaver has been misleading Ellison. She probably could've found one herself at the rate they were being sent back, but she just used him as an easier way to reach her goal, whatever that may be.

And I think it would actually be good writing and interesting if Weaver was more than just pure evil, preparing Skynet for the war. There seems to be more in her than that
I think it would be interesting too, but it just isn't written that way so far. If they change it, it will just seem like change for the sake of change rather than making sense. Kind of like how this episode played out.

Winston thought Sarah's son had blown up the facility, so he and his accomplice at least are clearly not aware of Weaver.
They're not aware of her bombing the place at least. From the sounds of it, the employees were so secretive and kept in the dark about their job that it's likely none of them knew much about their parent company, or much less that it was possibly controlled by Zeira and Weaver.
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Old March 1 2009, 11:21 PM   #104
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

If Weaver is being played as totally evil, then her attempts to comfort her original's daughter make little sense. It would be far more convenient to just arrange for the kid to have a tragic accident. The kid, though young, knows that the terminator isn't really her mother, and the wrong thing said at the wrong time could bring problems.
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Old March 1 2009, 11:32 PM   #105
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Re: Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Like you said, it was just "heat and air", and that's pretty vague to be able to track them down. It could be enough, I suppose. But then when why send Walsh to find the missing employee? How did she know? It's possible she looked it all up on the computer, but again that seems to be more of a stretch.
They did make a point of showing her accessing some files on one of their computers, though. Personnel records could easily have been among them. The curious part is that Weaver thought there was one missing employee - but there actually are 2. Which one was Walsh looking for? Zoe's father or Winston? I suspect Zoe's father.

While it is not impossible, it would also be drastic for Weaver to shut down her own operation like that, if it was hers. In the intercepted message, they were referring to an evacuation and "you know the drill", so procedures in case of a security breach were in place. Even if Weaver simply does not tolerate sloppyness (the unsecured line), wouldn't killing the persons directly responsible have worked?

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
I doubt it too, but not for story reasons. Carter is basically a forgotten element, even though he should've easily been able to escape that facility. I'm almost certain that Weaver wasn't really thought of at that point.
The last point is very likely true. But whether Carter is forgotten, remains to be seen. On the producer's blog, the return of at least one S1 character - previously unseen in S2, so not Charlie - has been announced. There aren't that many candidates; Carter is one of them (I guess Cheri, Morris, Terissa Dyson, Dr. Silberman are the most prominent of the others). So, maybe "he'll be back".

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
I think it would be interesting too, but it just isn't written that way so far. If they change it, it will just seem like change for the sake of change rather than making sense.
I disagree here. Weaver's character is rather ambiguous now. She kills easily, true, but Cameron is almost as quick to kill. The most curious thing about Weaver is why she would possibly want JH to learn "morals", and she does seem to spend a wee bit more effort on Savannah than strictly necessary for her cover. At the moment, we don't know what Weaver's exact goal is, but she doesn't act the way Carter did. Her "crossing against the light" comments early on were also interesting.

That does not have to mean she is pro-human in any way, but what if she was send back by a Skynet that was desperate and losing the war in the future, and they may want to try another approach instead of nuking everything?

I am also not 100% sure if Ellison doesn't have at least suspicions, regarding Weaver.

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
They're not aware of her bombing the place at least. From the sounds of it, the employees were so secretive and kept in the dark about their job that it's likely none of them knew much about their parent company, or much less that it was possibly controlled by Zeira and Weaver.
True enough. Allthough it does seem that Winston and Zoey's dad, who were the killers in the operation, may have known more than the other employees. They did make off with the drone, in any case.
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