RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,131
Posts: 5,401,611
Members: 24,746
Currently online: 458
Newest member: retrodynamic

TrekToday headlines

September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Lee Passes
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Retro Watches
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

 
 
Thread Tools
Old February 19 2009, 05:36 PM   #1
Crewman47
Commodore
 
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Who led the Cylons?

I'm not entirley upto date on the latest seasons of NuBSG or have never seen the second miniseries (was it one?) but I was just thinking, was it ever explained who led the Centurions during there rebellion over Humans and gave them the initiative to create upgrade models and the human model cylons? Did they have the Gold centurions, IL series and the Imperious Leader from TOS or were they simply a collective leadership?
Crewman47 is offline  
Old February 19 2009, 06:02 PM   #2
anti-matter
Rear Admiral
 
anti-matter's Avatar
 
Location: canon violation
Re: Who led the Cylons?

At this moment in time it would seem the Cylon known as Cavil is the master manipulator of all Cylons.
anti-matter is offline  
Old February 19 2009, 06:38 PM   #3
WeAreTheBorg
Vice Admiral
 
WeAreTheBorg's Avatar
 
Location: Sector 001
Re: Who led the Cylons?

There was one miniseries before season 1.

Watch the episodes. All will be revealed.
__________________
"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - GK Chesterton
WeAreTheBorg is offline  
Old February 19 2009, 07:41 PM   #4
Crewman47
Commodore
 
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Re: Who led the Cylons?

anti-matter wrote: View Post
At this moment in time it would seem the Cylon known as Cavil is the master manipulator of all Cylons.
So Cavil was always around, even during the first Cylon war with the Colonies?
Crewman47 is offline  
Old February 19 2009, 08:02 PM   #5
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Who led the Cylons?

Crewman47 wrote: View Post
anti-matter wrote: View Post
At this moment in time it would seem the Cylon known as Cavil is the master manipulator of all Cylons.
So Cavil was always around, even during the first Cylon war with the Colonies?
No. Cavil didn't exist until he was created by the "Final Five," after the Cylon rebellion was over.

Presumably the Centurions were able to think for themselves and the leadership came from within their own ranks. It's been established that Cavil has placed inhibitions on their freedom since that time.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline  
Old February 19 2009, 08:04 PM   #6
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: Who led the Cylons?

Have you seen "No Exit" from season four yet? It explains pretty much everything. If you're not worried about being spoiled, someone here can fill in the blanks for you. But I'd watch the whole thing first if I were you.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline  
Old February 19 2009, 08:29 PM   #7
Crewman47
Commodore
 
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Re: Who led the Cylons?

Been trying to follow season 4 and have seen No Exit but because I've missed alot of season 3 and bits of season 2 it's hard to follow and figure out what's what at times, although there are parts of season 4 that I have been able to catch on to without having seen season 3. I'll need to try and get them on rental sometime.
Crewman47 is offline  
Old February 19 2009, 10:15 PM   #8
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: Who led the Cylons?

It really is best in order, but to explain in brief.

Cavil was the first Skin-job the Final Five built (thus he is Number One) when they arrived at the colonies at the end of the First Cylon War. This gave him some authority, which he fully asserted when he killed Number 7 (Daniel), as well as killed the Final Five. He deposited the Five on the colonies with false memories to punish them.

We don't know who exactly (if anyone) led the Centurions in the first revolt. Perhaps that will be explored in Caprica, perhaps it will be left to the imagination.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline  
Old February 20 2009, 01:47 AM   #9
Verteron
Rear Admiral
 
Verteron's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Who led the Cylons?

Crewman47 wrote: View Post
I'm not entirley upto date on the latest seasons of NuBSG or have never seen the second miniseries (was it one?) but I was just thinking, was it ever explained who led the Centurions during there rebellion over Humans and gave them the initiative to create upgrade models and the human model cylons? Did they have the Gold centurions, IL series and the Imperious Leader from TOS or were they simply a collective leadership?
Before the 'skinjobs', you're right, we're not entirely clear on whether there was any kind of hierarchy or what the nu-cylons were like up 'close and personal'.

Presumably they had some independent thought ability, enough to rebel. We saw gold cylons in Razor (which was an extended direct-to-DVD movie which you may be thinking of as the "second miniseries"), and other cylons answering with "by your command", so my guess is that like in original BSG, they were the leaders.
Verteron is offline  
Old February 20 2009, 03:11 AM   #10
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: Who led the Cylons?

The idea of the Centurions being sentient enough to build human models (either because they envy humans or just for infiltration/military reasons) is intriguing, but the way the toasters have been presented as clanking nothings makes it difficult to accept intuitively. Just because you say something is so in a story doesn't mean it works. You have to use characterization and storytelling to make it seem emotionally real to the audience, and that just hasn't happened at all. The toasters have had too little screen time for it even to be possible.

I kinda wish the Cylons had just stuck to the toaster model, yet been presented as full fledged characters. That would have been tough to pull off - especially if they don't speak (much) - but not impossible. R2D2 is a real character, even tho he doesn't look human and doesn't have the ability to speak. The absence of the toasters as actual characters in the story is a huge gaping hole at the heart of BSG.

The writers are contorting the story around in an attempt to force it to make sense after the fact, and their strategy for doing so is putting the Centurions more in the limelight than they deserve or is good for the story. They're just exchanging literal illogic for emotional illogic.
We don't know who exactly (if anyone) led the Centurions in the first revolt. Perhaps that will be explored in Caprica, perhaps it will be left to the imagination.
At this point, I vote for it to be left to the imagination, if it's just going to require more contorted and obviously retconned storytelling.
Temis the Vorta is offline  
Old February 20 2009, 03:26 AM   #11
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: Who led the Cylons?

The lack of Toasters is largely due to budgetary constraints if anything. It's why Ronald D. Moore came up with the "skin-jobs" in the first place.

I don't know why telling the story of the Centurion's revolt will require ret-conning. We hardly know anything about that period, so there's plenty of room for legitimate storytelling.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline  
Old February 20 2009, 06:30 AM   #12
cbspock
Rear Admiral
 
cbspock's Avatar
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
Re: Who led the Cylons?

Well we know at one point the centurions met up with the final 5. Maybe it was the guardians who were the leaders. It doesnt neccesarily have to be 1 cylon who led the robots in revolt. It could have been a group of them.

I agree that there would be no ret-conning needed. Also, one story element that was trimmed out of season 4 was to show more centurions starting to show more independence after the restraining programming was removed. It would be ironic if in the end it was the centurions that save the humans from the humaniod cylons.


-Chris
__________________
"It's important to give it all you have while you have the chance."-Shania
cbspock is offline  
Old February 20 2009, 07:53 AM   #13
nx1701g
Admiral
 
nx1701g's Avatar
 
Location: Aboard the Executor...
Re: Who led the Cylons?

Just wanted to add: No Exit also added that the Basestar Hybrids were built by the Centurions before they came across the Final Five.
__________________
Not Dead Yet.
nx1701g is offline  
Old February 20 2009, 09:52 AM   #14
Peacemaker
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Time Vortex
Re: Who led the Cylons?

And we also know that the Gold Centurions were command Centurions at least on the Cylon fighters during the first war. Whether they enjoyed some sort of group consciousness is something we are very unsure about right now.
Peacemaker is offline  
Old February 20 2009, 01:23 PM   #15
solariabsg25
Captain
 
solariabsg25's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, UK
View solariabsg25's Twitter Profile
Re: Who led the Cylons?

The fact is we know very little of what happened during the First Cylon War (personally I prefer to think of it as jut the Cylon War as the second seemed to be "The Cylons turn up and vape averyone in sight" rather than a War).

We have seen a hierarchy, in that Gold Centurions are in charge, as I suspect that although they would all be constructed the same and "equal" you would need something to be able to direct you and make decisions.

So, you would have the foot-slogger Centurions, those who fought on the ground and in space.

Then you would have a Command Centurion, probably little different to an actual Centurion, perhaps with slightly enhance abilities, being a "squad leaders" and the ones in the third seat of the Raiders.

Above them would come the Gold Centurions. They would be the platoon commanders/squadron leaders.

But then you have the Guardians, possibly seperate to the main Cylon Force, those in charge of the "Big Picture". The ultimate leader (an Imperius Leader of IL Series? Or maybe even an AI within a Basestar), may be in this group, or it could be like the Cult of Skaro in NuWho, a seperate entity charged with thinking "Outside the box".

The Guardians seemed to be the ones who thought up the idea of Hybrids and Skinjobs in the first place, and independantly to the Final Five, but then they left the other Cylons completely after the Armistace, becoming little more than a legend to them. I suspect Cavill knows more about them and thier intentions, but chose to keep this secret from the rest of the Cylons.
__________________
"A perfect organism, unclouded by remorse, or human illusions of morality." - Ash, Alien
solariabsg25 is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:33 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.