RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,113
Posts: 5,400,579
Members: 24,744
Currently online: 401
Newest member: Ohwowmelody

TrekToday headlines

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Retro Watches
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

New DS9 eBook To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

Trek Ice Cube Maker and Shot Glasses
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

View Poll Results: Grade the episode...
Excellent 15 7.08%
Above Average 56 26.42%
Average 99 46.70%
Below Average 30 14.15%
Poor 12 5.66%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools
Old February 24 2009, 04:18 AM   #196
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

Starwind wrote: View Post
Dogstown, the civilians quartered on the converted museum flight pod, was introduced in 3x14, "The Woman King". Just one of thse "filler" episodes no pays attention to, I guess.
And the fact that Galactica was teeming with civillians post-New Caprica had been established several episodes before that, in "Collaborators" and "Torn."

And I have to admit that I love the Wire, but it is not *entirely* flawless. I think it was a little preachy in its final season, which isn't surprising, considering David Simon's deep investment in the media. I also felt that reduced order of 10.5 episodes (as opposed to 12 or 13) hampered things a little, and ended up reducing a couple of ongoing threads to character appearances in single episodes (I won't name names due to spoilers, but those who have seen probably know who I mean). Still, the strongest, most consistent television series I've ever seen (and never a bad episode or season).
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline  
Old February 24 2009, 05:27 AM   #197
Gregsmack
Captain
 
Gregsmack's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

Hirogen, I might just agree with you on The Wire's fifth season. It certainly did not seem as tight as its predecessors and it did seem hampered by certain story elements (which I also will not spoil) given its unusually short episode span. It's not flawless (I agree with you on its subtlety issues from time to time -- but that is not inherently a flaw either, I might say) but, like you said, it is the strongest series ever put to the small screen. The ball was not dropped once and very few, if any, concessions were made creatively to networks or fans alike.

EDIT: After giviing it some thought and laughing, can any of you imagine David Simon in RDM's position? The Wire did not ever, ever, ever sacrifice its narrative for the viewers. There were no flashbacks, extra exposition, or anything. Simon assumes the viewers watch, pay attention, and can remember details from season to season. I can only imagine how he would have responded to the types of fan-Q'n'A sessions that RDM must endure.
Gregsmack is offline  
Old February 24 2009, 05:52 AM   #198
Mitty
Vice Admiral
 
Mitty's Avatar
 
Location: Melbourne
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

Okay, so now we know for sure about the final five, the only mystery left is that of Starbuck and her dead doppelganger on "Earth". I'm assuming this won't be solved until the finale, or perhaps we'll find out the truth in the 3rd last ep and then deal with the consequences (whatever they may be) in the finale.

Meanwhile this ep was good (because I love Kate Vernon), but I hated them turning her back into drunk Jealous Ellen, I liked Baseship Ellen much better.
__________________
I'm being extremely clever up here and there's no one to stand around looking impressed, what's the point in having you all? - The Doctor, interrupting a very important conversation.
Mitty is offline  
Old February 24 2009, 06:22 AM   #199
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

Gregsmack wrote: View Post
After giviing it some thought and laughing, can any of you imagine David Simon in RDM's position? The Wire did not ever, ever, ever sacrifice its narrative for the viewers. There were no flashbacks, extra exposition, or anything. Simon assumes the viewers watch, pay attention, and can remember details from season to season. I can only imagine how he would have responded to the types of fan-Q'n'A sessions that RDM must endure.
I long for a television producer of science fiction with Simon's uncompromising gall (of course, you'd also need a network to back you up--I don't know if there's any network out there who would give that kind of support to a sci-fi program). It's preferable to long re-cap montages and episodes jammed full of expostion. When they return to the Gant crime scene at the end of the Wire, without anyone but the keen eyes of the audience to notice this important detail, the series is truly great. I'm glad HBO only forced one flashback (at the end of the pilot) and quickly learned from the error.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline  
Old February 24 2009, 03:46 PM   #200
Yminale
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Democratically Liberated America
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

Give me a break, "The Wire" was an overdramatized, liberal rant (I'm a liberal). The fact of the matter is reality is DULL and television needs to be entertaining first. "Deadwood" and "The Sopranos" were better because they never forget they were TV shows and not soapboxes. As for BSG, Like I said most of the problems are due to it ending early therefore I don't think people's harsh judgement on pacing and characterizations are fair.

Also about Tyrrol, Tigh and even the Galactica being a Cylon, they've been part of the Cylon pool for years. Being cylon has made the characters more interesting as it forces both to explore their "human" lives. Remember in season 2 when Tyrrol thought he was Cylon (we also met Cavil). Makes that arc alot more interesting now.
__________________
This Space for Rent
Yminale is offline  
Old February 24 2009, 03:49 PM   #201
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

Gregsmack wrote: View Post
^ To honestly and truthfully answer your question, I have to enter 'The Wire' into the ring.
And...

sidious618 wrote: View Post
You're absolutely right. The Wire has never slipped up.
And...

Yminale wrote: View Post
Give me a break, "The Wire" was an overdramatized, liberal rant (I'm a liberal). The fact of the matter is reality is DULL and television needs to be entertaining first. "Deadwood" and "The Sopranos" were better because they never forget they were TV shows and not soapboxes.
It's a law of the Internet. Okay, it's just a function of what fiction is, and individual taste. De gustibus non est disputandum.

My favorite TV series have really never been the reliable ones, but those shows over the years where the high points have really excited, moved and intrigued me. I think I'm constitutionally disposed to endure some real mountains of bullshit if there are a few diamonds buried in there.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline  
Old February 24 2009, 04:19 PM   #202
Samuel T. Cogley
Vice Admiral
 
Samuel T. Cogley's Avatar
 
Location: Hold still, Jim.
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
I think I'm constitutionally disposed to endure some real mountains of bullshit if there are a few diamonds buried in there.
I've known Dennis for years, and I know this to be true.
__________________
"If I didn't keep getting distracted by an avatar showing a sombrero'd dog getting his engineering hull penis substitute cut off I'd probably say that the above post was a point well made." - ITL
Samuel T. Cogley is offline  
Old February 24 2009, 06:56 PM   #203
Sharr Khan
Rear Admiral
 
Sharr Khan's Avatar
 
Location: USA Ct
View Sharr Khan's Twitter Profile
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

Yminale "Deadwood" and "The Sopranos" were better because they never forget they were TV shows and not soapboxes.
QFT
That is the principle a show should care about being entertaining first and its "message" if any second.

Sharr
Sharr Khan is offline  
Old February 25 2009, 02:04 AM   #204
Noname Given
Vice Admiral
 
Location: None Given
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

Sharr Khan wrote: View Post
Yminale "Deadwood" and "The Sopranos" were better because they never forget they were TV shows and not soapboxes.
QFT
That is the principle a show should care about being entertaining first and its "message" if any second.

Sharr
and "Trying for that writing Emmy" should come in a distant last.
Noname Given is offline  
Old February 25 2009, 02:13 AM   #205
Sharr Khan
Rear Admiral
 
Sharr Khan's Avatar
 
Location: USA Ct
View Sharr Khan's Twitter Profile
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

Noname Given wrote: View Post
Sharr Khan wrote: View Post
Yminale "Deadwood" and "The Sopranos" were better because they never forget they were TV shows and not soapboxes.
QFT
That is the principle a show should care about being entertaining first and its "message" if any second.

Sharr
and "Trying for that writing Emmy" should come in a distant last.
Seriously chances are if while you're writing/creating and your goal is to get an award for it its gonna end up blowing anyway. Best to just aim for making the best product you can that archives whatever artistic goals you have for yourself. Not that an Emmy/Saturn/Oscar or whatever is a bad thing to get if in the process you've done what you set out to do.

Soapboxey scifi to me tends to fall flat.

Sharr
Sharr Khan is offline  
Old February 25 2009, 02:38 AM   #206
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Vice Admiral
 
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

Sharr Khan wrote: View Post
Yminale "Deadwood" and "The Sopranos" were better because they never forget they were TV shows and not soapboxes.
QFT
That is the principle a show should care about being entertaining first and its "message" if any second.

Sharr
Thankfully, The Wire was incredibly entertaining, in addition to being brilliant, without a single "average" (or worse) episdoe
Stone_Cold_Sisko is offline  
Old February 25 2009, 06:26 AM   #207
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

Sharr Khan wrote: View Post
That is the principle a show should care about being entertaining first and its "message" if any second.
The Wire was incredibly entertaining, but we fundamentally disagree on this point. Television, just as film, has to have aspirations above and beyond entertainment. Moreover, the notion that reality is dull I can't subscribe to. If it's escapism you're looking for, I admit neither The Wire nor Battlestar Galactica are going to provide you with much.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline  
Old February 25 2009, 06:50 AM   #208
Sharr Khan
Rear Admiral
 
Sharr Khan's Avatar
 
Location: USA Ct
View Sharr Khan's Twitter Profile
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
Sharr Khan wrote: View Post
That is the principle a show should care about being entertaining first and its "message" if any second.
The Wire was incredibly entertaining, but we fundamentally disagree on this point. Television, just as film, has to have aspirations above and beyond entertainment. Moreover, the notion that reality is dull I can't subscribe to. If it's escapism you're looking for, I admit neither The Wire nor Battlestar Galactica are going to provide you with much.
Its not "escapism" I want, its heavy handed soapboxing and agenda mongering that turns me off. Even if I might agree with the point being made, to put that ahead of and at the expense of a shows entertainment value seems downright dumb to me.

What began to drive me away from later day versions of Trek was its first concern often seemed to be whatever the message of the week rather then character development or plot. I don't watch tv to be talked down to or have someones propaganda shoved down my throat. If I have an inclition that's what a show runner thinks his point in being is I will avoid their show at all costs.


Some how I don't think a shows "message" is on the table at a pitch meeting. And if it is, maybe that should be looked into with a bit of skepticism. Then what's being produced is propaganda not entertainment.

*I don't recall saying "reality is dull"? I hardly think that, its varied and interesting, full of irony.

Sharr
Sharr Khan is offline  
Old February 25 2009, 06:25 PM   #209
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

^^
Another poster said "reality was dull," not you.

And I agree that heavy handed agendas are ineffective. But those accomplished with tact and subtlety (something Star Trek didn't always accomplish) are very effective, and usually make for my favorite television programs.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline  
Old February 26 2009, 09:07 PM   #210
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x16: "Deadlock"

I must be crazy because I thought this episode was fantastic.

It struck me as one of those "calm before the storm" type episodes. Not a whole lot happened, but it put the characters into place for things to come, and it had some really decent emotional moments.

Ellen is awesome. She was just as petty as ever up until the point where Tigh needed her the most. Then, as much as it probably pained her, she was there for him and Caprica at the end.

Tyrol was interesting. He's seemed more lost than anyone ever since he found out he was a Cylon. I have a feeling he voted to leave because it was a chance to reunite with Boomer. It's hard to blame her for her past mistakes now that he is a Cylon himself.

Baltar the Humanitarian. I love it.

The few scenes at the end were pretty powerful, too. I loved Tigh and Adama's embrace. Who know Tigh would be so excited to being a father?

And the reveal that the Cylons have been putting their dead pictures on the wall...very interesting.

Overall, I think it definitely set some up some interesting dynamics for the remaining episodes. I'm actually surprised at the mediocre reviews it's getting.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Tags
boring, ellen tigh, final five, grading & discussion

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:07 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.