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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 1 2009, 06:09 AM   #76
davejames
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

T-ravis wrote: View Post
Well, this set is officially the cats ass.

the remastered effects look much better in HD. I love love love the landscape shot of the ruins at the beggining of "the Man Trap". The Enterprise docking with the supply ship at the start of "Charlie X" made me go all Weeeeeee!

I am taking the rest of the week off to watch these.
Yeah I agree. I didn't buy the set for the new effects, but after watching a couple episodes with them turned on, I think I'll probably view them all that way now.

It's not like I haven't seen the original versions thousands of times already, after all.
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Old May 1 2009, 02:14 PM   #77
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
USS Mariner wrote: View Post
Does the original mono tracks restore Malachi Throne as the Keeper's voice, or were those lost forever?
The mono tracks are the broadcast audio tracks from the original airings. Throne's voice was never for the Keeper in the aired episode, so they wouldn't have put it in.

When the third season set and The Cage come out, that would be the place to put it.
My bad. I forgot that they hadn't done "Cage" yet, only "Menagerie".
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Old May 1 2009, 08:21 PM   #78
Brikar99
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

davejames wrote: View Post
T-ravis wrote: View Post
Well, this set is officially the cats ass.

the remastered effects look much better in HD. I love love love the landscape shot of the ruins at the beggining of "the Man Trap". The Enterprise docking with the supply ship at the start of "Charlie X" made me go all Weeeeeee!

I am taking the rest of the week off to watch these.
Yeah I agree. I didn't buy the set for the new effects, but after watching a couple episodes with them turned on, I think I'll probably view them all that way now.

It's not like I haven't seen the original versions thousands of times already, after all.
I agree. It is totally worth having both versions, though. I like being able to switch back and forth for comparison.
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Old May 2 2009, 10:21 AM   #79
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

Am i the only one who is not impressed by this set? Maybe it was the Reviews and comments made by others but i was expecting much better picture quality. In the extras they boast about all the scratch and speck removal yet i notice specks and flaws everywhere. Even worse is the picture itself, it varies with each episode and I don't know if its because of the codec or the amount of compression or maybe a filter used in the mastering but it looks like ass. Looking closer at the picture it looks like a noise reduction filter that has destroyed fine details. Sharp edges are shimmery, subtle shadows on faces and uniforms are turned into blobs, and the film grain has been compressed into a hellish soup that permeates the picture and seems to follow a uniform pattern that is very distracting because the "random" film grain moves in unison. Yes it looks better than previous releases and the extras are decent but the picture quality sucks. Maybe i'm expecting too much from a 40 year old TV show but it looks to be more an issue of compression and filters used in the mastering than anything else.
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Old May 2 2009, 01:26 PM   #80
jefferiestubes8
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

Sparky wrote: View Post
I don't know if its because of the codec or the amount of compression or maybe a filter used in the mastering but it looks like ass.

Looking closer at the picture it looks like a noise reduction filter that has destroyed fine details.

The quality is outstanding. Colors are incredibly vibrant as you'd expect, and contrast is superb. What's truly impressive is the detail. ...the added bandwidth of BD and extra disc space (which allows for less compression to be used) makes a clear difference. Take a look at the clouds on the shots of the Enterprise arriving in a planet's orbit at the start of 'The Man Trap' - the HD-DVD clouds exhibit noticeable artifacting that's barely visible on Blu-ray (if at all)
...there were select home theatre enthusiasts who swore up and down that HD-DVD was THE superior way to view these remastered episodes in high-definition - that 'Star Trek' just could never get better on Blu-ray. This set is ABSOLUTE PROOF that they were wrong. This is just a superior TV on BD release and it's a must-have for every Trek fan.
-Bill Hunt, Editor of The Digital Bits review. posted above.


Am i the only one who is not impressed by this set?
Maybe i'm expecting too much from a 40 year old TV show but it looks to be more an issue of compression and filters used in the mastering than anything else.
Your level of expectation from a medium that gives you just about the same resolution as the cinema (2K digital projection) in your home on an HDTV screen comes from you becoming so familiar with the technology and movie releases in the last 9 years since "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" had a digital intermediate. ST:TOS was made 40 years before CBS started restoration on TOS-R in HD in 2006. It was shot on 35mm for 486 visible raster lines height (525 scanlines) television resolution. The TOS producers and crew knew they could hide errors in wardrobe, camera, sets, and props in the lower resolution back then.
Now transferred from the original film elements you see flaws as the film is 40 years old. Look at other full frame (4:3) television shows from that period on DVD such as season 1 of "Mission: Impossible" which also came out in 1966 to compare quality of the film transfer (they are in standard definition though). Since HD has 6 times the resolution and 10times the color information you have to compare another HD TV series. 'Hogan's Heroes' on HDNET would be a decent comparison.

Want something to compare?
Every episode has an standard definition preview trailer - the same original broadcast trailers that appeared on the very first 2-episodes-per-disc DVD release of the series way back in 1998.
Compare those trailers with the episodes. The 1998 transfers are described here:
Fully digital, high-definition transfers were done of all the episodes in the series, using the original film interpositives from the studio's vaults. Then, the D1 master tapes were "cleaned" using special digital filters to reduce the amount of dust and dirt visible. The result, on virtually every episode, is a crisp and vibrant picture, with terrific contrast and lush, accurate colors. The video isn't exactly reference quality. There's a lot of grain that shows on the print, which results in some artifacting and blotchiness after MPEG-2 compression. You'll also still see occasional dust and scratches on the film. And there's been some kind of digital edge enhancement applied to the video, because some of the edges seem unnaturally sharp.
The other reviews I listed above assure you this is the definitive release of TOS. It is not going to get any better.
The only reason older movies look better ('Wizard of Oz', Disney's 'Pinnochio' & 'Snow White') is because they did CMY separate black and white negatives to preserve the image and color. TV shows have NEVER done that.

The only television shows that I know that have even gone back to the camera negative to retransfer to HD are:
TOS, I Love Lucy, ER, The Twilight Zone
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Old May 2 2009, 01:58 PM   #81
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

I'm baffled at the treatment of What are Little Girls Made Of?. All the shipboard scenes with viewer effects were all scratched up and had black specs throughout.

I've watched several episodes and this is the first one that looked so poor.
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Old May 2 2009, 01:59 PM   #82
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

jeffriestube8,
I think the other poster may have a point. I haven't seen the blu ray TOS, but I've seen screen grabs from the TOS movies and while they are brighter and clearer and sharper on edges, the interior of elements has a kind of wash or mush that softens and obliterates other detail, which sounds like grain reduction trickery.

I used to have tremendous appreciation for Hunt back when he only had Laserdisc newsletter, but over the last decade I've noticed that he and other DVD sites that thrive have as often as not taken the studio side on various issues, so I've got to question this TREK review. I seem to remember he has been on both sides of this issue (with respect to the BluRay PATTON, somebody correct me if I'm wrong on this), so again, there are creds, but I don't necessarily accept them.

Folks who have even seen 16mm eps of TOS projected (myself included) have marvelled at the amount of detail in the imagery, so to get less than that on blu ray seems wrong (ESPECIALLY since blu-ray is actually fairly close to the rez you get with straight 16mm, and something better than you get with great super-8.)

If you consider the way TOS was shot (and by that, I'm not talking about 12 shadows on walls behind Kirk when he walks the bridge, or the vaseline when shooting chicks), it was an insanely rich looking show visually, due not just to the colors but also to the dramatic sidelighting with unfiltered deep shadows; if the extremes of that look have been muted or sacrificed for blu ray, then this really is NOT an ultimate edition at all, just a matter of the studio coughing out what they find is most palatable or salable a commodity for the mainstream as they can muster.
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Old May 2 2009, 02:09 PM   #83
jefferiestubes8
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

trevanian wrote: View Post
If you consider the way TOS was shot...
...also to the dramatic sidelighting with unfiltered deep shadows; if the extremes of that look have been muted or sacrificed for blu ray
This is one problem with more resolution. You are taken out of the story more often because of technical artifacts that have become visible due to the higher resolution of an old film element.
HD has many more shades in the shadows that NTSC just cannot reproduce. Blu-ray will more accurately portray the Director of Photography's work as recorded on the film.

Print and web media reviews of a product all have some level of hype and marketing attached to them. Period.
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Old May 2 2009, 02:27 PM   #84
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

Picked this up today along with the OS movies box-set on blu-ray.

I've only had a cursory glance at it so far. I'll get back to you with my opinions at some later date.

One thing I can say though at this early stage - I wish they would drop the broadcast order and switch to production order so I could just put each disk in in order and start watching, instead of having to refer to an episode listing sheet, looking up the episode in correct order then referring to the back side of the insert on the box to find the correct disk I want - it gets old fast.
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Old May 2 2009, 02:32 PM   #85
trevanian
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
If you consider the way TOS was shot...
...also to the dramatic sidelighting with unfiltered deep shadows; if the extremes of that look have been muted or sacrificed for blu ray
This is one problem with more resolution. You are taken out of the story more often because of technical artifacts that have become visible due to the higher resolution of an old film element.
Grain is part of the image, not an artifact (until you get into optical printing issues.) Scratches and other blemishes aren't usually bothersome to me, any more than the defects on old paintings (and I despise attempts to clean THOSE up.)

If you can't appreciate the work because it isn't clean enough, maybe you just shouldn't be trying to.

(this is a thing apart from a legit cleanup/restoration ... cleaning up BLADE RUNNER was overdue and a great thing, and was done for a film where all the elements were properly preserved, so you didn't have a messed up source or something perceived to be a messed up source.)
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Old May 2 2009, 08:25 PM   #86
davejames
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

Sparky wrote: View Post
Am i the only one who is not impressed by this set? Maybe it was the Reviews and comments made by others but i was expecting much better picture quality. In the extras they boast about all the scratch and speck removal yet i notice specks and flaws everywhere. Even worse is the picture itself, it varies with each episode and I don't know if its because of the codec or the amount of compression or maybe a filter used in the mastering but it looks like ass. Looking closer at the picture it looks like a noise reduction filter that has destroyed fine details. Sharp edges are shimmery, subtle shadows on faces and uniforms are turned into blobs, and the film grain has been compressed into a hellish soup that permeates the picture and seems to follow a uniform pattern that is very distracting because the "random" film grain moves in unison. Yes it looks better than previous releases and the extras are decent but the picture quality sucks. Maybe i'm expecting too much from a 40 year old TV show but it looks to be more an issue of compression and filters used in the mastering than anything else.
The resolution does seem to vary throughout each episode, but I suspect that's due more to how the directors backed then worked the camera. Since the episodes were only being transmitted to small, primitive 1960s TV sets, they obviously didn't need to worry about keeping every shot in perfect focus like they do now.

So some close-ups of the actors will be blurry and slightly out of focus, and some will be so crisp and sharp you can see every skin pore and strand of hair on their head. It's kind of distracting watching on a large HD set, but you just have to roll with it.
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Old May 3 2009, 07:50 PM   #87
jefferiestubes8
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BD-Live Reports from FEDCON only on May 1-3

owners of 'Star Trek: The Original Series: Season 1' will be able to receive daily reports from FEDCON - Europe's largest STAR TREK convention - via the disc's BD-Live interface. CBS Home Entertainment for the first time ever will have production teams onsite at FEDCON to film behind-the-scenes footage, talent interviews and more directly from the convention floor.

Daily coverage begins today and will conclude on Sunday, May 3rd. For access, simply insert your Blu-ray copy of 'Season 1' into your BD-Live compatible Blu-ray player and click on the BD-Live option in the menu. There you will find the reports in addition to the already available exclusive movies and trailers, accessible only to owners of the Blu-ray disc.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=2642



talent interviews with Star Trek stars such as Nichelle Nichols and more.
The FEDCON feed is only available from now until May 3
http://www.sfuniverse.com/2009/05/01...ow-on-bd-live/

CBS Home Entertainment will have teams onsite at FEDCON, filming behind-the-scenes footage
http://bluray.ign.com/articles/979/979063p1.html


FEDCON, Europe’s largest Star Trek Convention.
More than 5,000 fans will get together in Bonn, Germany to celebrate their favorite series over the weekend and you can join them virtually. May 1-3, 2009.
I do not have an Internet connection for a Blu-ray player's BD-Live features at the moment. Can anyone comment on the content?
Is this content in High Definition? 720 or 1080?
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Old May 4 2009, 03:02 AM   #88
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

Well i got the TOS BR box-set................Now excuse me but i have spent the entire day mopping up my drool, and i am scheduled for jaw replacement surgery soon to reattach my jaw to my face, as its been dragging on the floor since i watched the first episode of the BR box-set.

Image as sharp as...well a really really really sharp thing.(So sharp you can see just how red and irritated Gary Mitchell's eyes lids are in WNMHGB with those silver contact lens)

Colour so vivid your eyes will melt.(Latterly my eyes have melted)

Sound, even though I'm only using my TV for the sounds its very beefy and sounds fantastic.

I have not tried anything else yet as i want to savor all episodes first before i dive into the extras.

What a box-set.
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Old May 4 2009, 04:18 AM   #89
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

The 7.1 sound mix is very nice and seems to have a number of improvements over the old 5.1 Dolby on the TOS dvd box sets - though I am only hearing them through a 5.1 speaker setup on a 7.1 amp via optical cable (so no true HD mix, it has to downmix via bitrate conversion. You need HDMI for true HD sound and my amp doesn't take it). Still very nice though.
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Old May 4 2009, 07:09 AM   #90
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Re: Star Trek season 1 on blu-ray: April 28

After watching some more episodes i really think they may have used a noise reduction filter on some episodes. Maybe the original negatives had excessive grain that they tried to correct for but it does make some episodes look worse than others. I don't mind film grain at all but in some episodes and/or scenes what should be "random" film grain is now a noticeable pattern or blob that moves in unison. It does not happen on every episode but it does stick out like a sore thumb when it happens.

I do agree with some posters here that the 7.1 sound mix is a bit off. The opening and end credits are too loud compared to the rest of the episode and i do have to crank the receiver up quite a bit to hear the mix properly. It's not a huge issue because the new mix does sound fantastic but it is a bit of a pain to have to either skip the credits or turn the volume down for them.

I do have an issue with the packaging though. Has anyone else here had a problem with disc 7 constantly popping out of its holder? I have gone through 3 sets now and in every single one Disc 7 has been a floater when opening the packaging and it constantly pops off of the holder because even slightly bending the back part of the case causes the disc to pop off. Even the simple act of opening the case can cause the disc to come loose.

Don't get me wrong here, I love this set. The picture "is" better than it has ever been and so is the sound. Having both versions of the episodes available to watch and compare is amazing. Having the original previews is a treat and a nice way to see how good the restoration really is. The rest of the extras are the icing on the cake. I think that most of my disappointment was caused by my own inflated expectations of what a 1966 TV show would look like with 2009 technology.
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