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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old February 22 2009, 10:50 AM   #16
Myasishchev
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

I dunno. I'm relatively convinced that they could replicate a bee if they really wanted to, it's just too power intensive for its purpose (you get: a bee). It's only a machine made of chitin and goop. Marvelously complex technologically, but nothing as complex as a human brain.

At any rate, I think (TNG TM aside) that the transporter/replicator distinction is that the information used to recreate a human body, swarm of bees, humpback whale, test cylinder, Tom Riker or whatever is somehow encoded in the disassembled object itself. Theoretically, this could be done by an external computer, but if a transporter truly organizes matter at such a resolution that the precise position and velocity of individual atoms are known, the only physically possible storage method I can think of is at least the size of the body itself. Indeterminancy may dictate that such information can't be known without interfering with the particles, the transfer of information being a physical process that affects the position and/or velocity of the particles in question. At the same time, a quantum system appears fully capable of computing itself in a satisfactory manner, insofar as anything manages to exist from one moment to the next.

Now here's a silly transporter question: why is the sensation of being transported not atrociously painful? The body is literally disintegrated by the transporter beam, and generally that sort of thing hurts. Do they beam out the central nervous system first and put it back in last?

Last edited by Myasishchev; February 22 2009 at 08:07 PM.
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Old February 22 2009, 01:04 PM   #17
The Borg Queen
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

Imagine Borg bees that sting you with nanoprobes and assimilate you.
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Old February 22 2009, 07:29 PM   #18
JNG
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Now here's a silly transporter question: why is the sensation of being transported not atrociously painful? The body is literally disintegrated by the transporter beam, and generally that sort of thing hurts. Do they beam out the central nervous system first and put it back in last?
Would someone really be able to feel it if they were such tiny bits being removed so rapidly and put back into place at the destination? I believe one would feel *something* all right, but no clue if it would approximate pain. The nervous system suggestion doesn't seem to be true, at least not for Starfleet transporters, so what are some other ways this could work without hurting someone?
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Old February 22 2009, 08:13 PM   #19
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

If it's completely simultaneous (or simultaneous within about a tolerance of a millisecond), no, I figure they wouldn't feel anything or at least anything unpleasant. But it doesn't appear to be completely simultaneous, because subjects don't simply vanish and repappear, but become shimmery and transluscent for over a second.

I suppose since the transporter puts particles where it wants, it could place the brain in such a situation that it cannot feel the death of the body, but it would still have to take out or manipulate whatever part feels first.
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Old February 23 2009, 01:22 AM   #20
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

I used to think the transporter placed you into some form of stasis at first, but then I am remembering a TNG episode where Barclay is conscious during transport and is looking at something/someone/some alien during the transport process.
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Old February 23 2009, 01:49 AM   #21
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

I'd imagine it feels like a fuzzy fading, rather than being ripped apart.
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Old February 23 2009, 02:38 AM   #22
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

The Borg Queen wrote: View Post
Imagine Borg bees that sting you with nanoprobes and assimilate you.
You know that's not a bad idea for rebooting the borg.Think about it, instead of just destroying every ship they encounter all they do is just beam aboard a cupple thosand borg bees, assimalate the crew and ship and wham they have not only succesfuly assimalated an entire ship, But have also gotten more firepower on there side!
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Old March 17 2009, 08:22 AM   #23
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

Regarding consciousness while transporting, I am remembering an old Stephen King short story, I think called "The Jaunt", where they have to put people in a drug-induced sleep to teleport them; if awake, the unparticulated consciousness has no sense of time and the "jaunt" takes literally forever, rendering them hopelessly insane.

Maybe Trek does a light zap to the frontal lobe to make them unconscious during transport, and the last part of the transporter routine is another light zap to wake them up.
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Old March 17 2009, 10:30 AM   #24
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

...Of course, that assumes that consciousness is something different from small particles in the head going buzz. The transport process would be expected to stop the buzz, hence no consciousness - or then to convert the buzz to its "phased" analogy, just like everything else about the body is converted to something that is no longer quite solid but still retains cohesion and internal interaction. The latter is what seems to happen, at least to Barclay in what supposedly is a standard if a bit prolonged transporter process in "Realm of Fear". The "phased buzz" works at the same pace as the standard buzz, so there's no danger of the mind wandering...

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Old March 18 2009, 09:28 AM   #25
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

To that end, Timo, I am also thinking that the transporter would be a handy use to avoid non-synthehol alcohol hangovers the next day...drink too much, have to be on Alpha Shift a short time later, no problem; a waltz through the transporter buffer and you're sober as Sunday!
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Old March 18 2009, 09:36 AM   #26
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

I wonder if they'll ever get rid of sonic showers and just have a transporter refresher--beam everything but the crust and the dust mites. Or even turbolifts--point-to-point transporters would be quicker, especially in an emergency. And I'm still convinced classical toilets don't exist in the 24th century.

Now, granted, it seems a very trivial use of the very energy-intensive technology, but at the same time, look at the ungodly trivial uses they put their holodeck technology to. Or the ungodly trivial uses we put our present-day technology to. I saw a woman park on a sidewalk in front of the ticket outlet at my school's Coliseum the other day. The real parking spaces were ten feet behind her. This [expletive] would have used a transporter to go to the next room.
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Old March 19 2009, 02:36 AM   #27
SicOne
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

Although we have seen crew heads off the bridge on deck plans, there may very well be a subtle transporter subroutine that anyone can run at any time, to quickly and discretely remove bodily waste from the bladder and/or bowels without interrupting the flow of the moment, thereby improving overall efficiency.

But I admit I am thinking of the practical jokes a wily programmer can play. "Computer, beam my number two into Number One's pants."

Sorry, it was there, had to use it
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Old March 19 2009, 05:33 AM   #28
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

SicOne wrote: View Post
Although we have seen crew heads off the bridge on deck plans, there may very well be a subtle transporter subroutine that anyone can run at any time, to quickly and discretely remove bodily waste from the bladder and/or bowels without interrupting the flow of the moment, thereby improving overall efficiency.

But I admit I am thinking of the practical jokes a wily programmer can play. "Computer, beam my number two into Number One's pants."

Sorry, it was there, had to use it
I've heard this joked a number of times, but I would only comment that I think the transporter can't necessarily grab unpredictably moving targets safely, so I'd be scared to have such a system used on me.

I hear a lot of people claiming that the transporter isn't used as a weapon as effectively as it might be, but I think Trek canon supports that most enemies (except perhaps for the Borg...not sure) typically cannot beam onto the ship until it is not only unshielded, but unable to maneuver unpredictably anymore. I always think of a scene in a novel where a ship faked being unable to maneuver with shields down, and then got moving when hostiles began to visibly beam in, leaving the would-be intruders to materialize in space.
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Old March 20 2009, 01:30 PM   #29
Timo
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

That's a good point: transporter clearly can handle significant relative movement (say, planet vs. ship), but that by no means translates to an ability to handle erratic movement.

One might argue that at shortish ranges, phasers can easily track evasive maneuvers, even extreme ones. But a transporter might need to have greater accuracy - the endpoint of the transporter beam shouldn't move more than a few centimeters relative to the target ship, while the endpoint of a phaser beam could wobble back and forth by dozens of meters and still do the desired damage.

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Old March 21 2009, 11:48 AM   #30
Klaitu
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Re: Ok, silly transporter question...

Plecostomus wrote: View Post
Can they lock on to a huge swarm of bees and beam them up and flood the ship with 'em? Or do the safety systems disarm the stingers before they remateralize?

(Ok Paul I posted it, now pay up!)
Considering that even a 23rd century Klingon transporter is capable of beaming up a cube of water containing 2 whales, I'd say bees are probably not an issue.
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