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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old February 24 2009, 07:49 AM   #46
JNG
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

USSHermes wrote: View Post
Why not have a spacedock that scans and "beams up" say a runabout and then duplicates it? Obviously some materials can't be duplicated for example latinum, i'm not sure how many are used in starship design but then could probably copy and paste 80% complete shuttlecraft to their their hearts content, even duplicate defiants if they had mega -transporter-replicator copiers.
I am sure replication is used for some part of the manufacturing process, but they only answer to why it isn't used on a larger scale is that it becomes too power-intensive and is not practical.

As with several other possibilities in the thread, there is a strong implication that some day, they will be able to apply replicator tech on a much larger scale.
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Old February 24 2009, 08:27 AM   #47
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

JNG wrote: View Post
As with several other possibilities in the thread, there is a strong implication that some day, they will be able to apply replicator tech on a much larger scale.
I'd just like to point out that replicator tech and transporter tech could make for an absolutley frightening technological singularity situation, as well. That's's probably a good reason as to why the Federation isn't as AI-happy as other star-faring science fiction powers.
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Old February 24 2009, 03:31 PM   #48
Cmdr Sho
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

arent replicators in the category as holo tech?
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Old February 24 2009, 05:31 PM   #49
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

Replicators are an offshoot of the transporter. Instead of simply transporting something though, it's rearranged. "Holo" technology is based on replicator tech combined with forcefields and old-fashioned holography.
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Old February 24 2009, 10:54 PM   #50
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
I do really like your notion that transporter tech can essentially copy people--but that's a technology that would have to be very carefully approached from a dramatic standpoint in order to make effective stories out of.
It can, but it can't copy LIVE people. Replicators can only copy biomass and molecule-for-molecule duplications of bodies, but it can't duplicate what those molecules are supposed to be doing at the moment they are copied.

I mean, unless you're beaming someone through some type of local quantum hyperbole.

Here's a truly new tech: holographic damage control. This involves holoemitters throughout the ship which are capable of patching EPS conduits, hull breaches, and exploding consoles. Due to the huge energy expenditures involved, eventually industrial replicators will have to put physical patches in place, but for the duration of combat, starships should have a significant advantage.
Why use this for damage control? Since we're already using holograms all over the ship to create doctors and the person you're talking to on the opposite bridge, would it not be efficient to simply have all consoles or at least the monitors be holographic to begin with?

Scene:
Sensors detect a Romulan ship decloaking at the edge of sensor range. A monitor window appears in the air next to the tactical officer's head (thereby drawing attention to itself) with the report.
Tactical officer reports "Romulan ship decloaking!"
Captain orders "On screen." Another monitor appears in the middle of the room directly in front of him showing a visual image sans sensor data.
Captain orders "Red Alert," at which point a control station appears in front of the Captain's chair, as does a more extensive fire/shield control console in front of the tactical officer.

Think of it like a floating LCARS system. You can customize the entire room with as many stations and consoles as you want. Really, the only limit to how many stations you have on the bridge is the number of chairs and even these can easily be holographic.
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Old February 24 2009, 11:48 PM   #51
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

^For user-interface purposes, hologram tech is perfectly acceptable. I was pointing out that I don't think they'll ever build a ship that is entirely holographic other than the emitters. It's simply wasteful to do that instead of just building wall.

At the same time, it's conceivable that private holodeck-quarters might be the future in Starfleet. Barclay can have his fun without nosy jerks barging in.

As for transporters, it's described in the TM as essentially a resolution issue which could in theory be overcome by a suitably huge memory capacity. Further, it is really questionable whether a position/velocity replication of every particle in the brain is necessary to rebuild a human mind. It might be; quantum effects may be critical to consciousness. Iirc, this is Roger Penrose's contention.

But, insofar as the position and velocity of the particles in my brain change billions of times every second yet I still feel a continuity of my consciousness, it might not be.
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Old February 25 2009, 03:47 AM   #52
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
As for transporters, it's described in the TM as essentially a resolution issue which could in theory be overcome by a suitably huge memory capacity.
No, it tends to the nature of scanning technology. It's sort of like an electron microscope: it's impossible to scan something at that high a resolution without simultaneously killing it, because once you've scanned its many molecules to figure out exactly what they're doing at such and such a time, the intensity of the scan itself has already disrupted those molecules and probably ionized very important parts of them.

It's not really a matter of memory capacity as it is a matter of REALITY capacity. The data can only be expressed in a real analog medium (i.e. the matter stream) and cannot be represented digitally; therefore, it cannot be copied digitally and you have to find some kind of funky analog stream that can splice the matter stream and produce an exact duplicate. This is so hard to do that it's impossible to do on purpose; you have to have a matter-energy source in exactly the right harmony with the transporter beam to make it work, and even then it doesn't always work the way it's supposed to (as James Kirk found out the hard way back in the 23rd century). Indeed, if you tried to use the Riker Copy technique to reproduce a starship you're just as likely to get two copies of that vessel, one armed with a quantum killpedo tubes on every viewport, the other equipped with a swimming pool and a Christian Science Reading Room.

Further, it is really questionable whether a position/velocity replication of every particle in the brain is necessary to rebuild a human mind.
You don't build minds, let alone rebuild them. The mind is an emergent property of a working brain; if the brain isn't working, neither is the mind. That's probably another reason why you can't bulk-copy inanimate objects in a replicator. It's actually likely that anything with a large amount of structural/chemical/metallic bonds can't be reproduced in the replicator; you have to build the parts and then physically mate them together the old fashioned way. For those kinds of materials it would probably depend more on bulk storage of complex compounds, unable to fashion them ex nihilo just by attaching electrons to each other.
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Old February 25 2009, 04:28 AM   #53
nx1701g
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Myasishchev wrote: View Post
I do really like your notion that transporter tech can essentially copy people--but that's a technology that would have to be very carefully approached from a dramatic standpoint in order to make effective stories out of.
It can, but it can't copy LIVE people. Replicators can only copy biomass and molecule-for-molecule duplications of bodies, but it can't duplicate what those molecules are supposed to be doing at the moment they are copied.

I mean, unless you're beaming someone through some type of local quantum hyperbole.

Here's a truly new tech: holographic damage control. This involves holoemitters throughout the ship which are capable of patching EPS conduits, hull breaches, and exploding consoles. Due to the huge energy expenditures involved, eventually industrial replicators will have to put physical patches in place, but for the duration of combat, starships should have a significant advantage.
Why use this for damage control? Since we're already using holograms all over the ship to create doctors and the person you're talking to on the opposite bridge, would it not be efficient to simply have all consoles or at least the monitors be holographic to begin with?

Scene:
Sensors detect a Romulan ship decloaking at the edge of sensor range. A monitor window appears in the air next to the tactical officer's head (thereby drawing attention to itself) with the report.
Tactical officer reports "Romulan ship decloaking!"
Captain orders "On screen." Another monitor appears in the middle of the room directly in front of him showing a visual image sans sensor data.
Captain orders "Red Alert," at which point a control station appears in front of the Captain's chair, as does a more extensive fire/shield control console in front of the tactical officer.

Think of it like a floating LCARS system. You can customize the entire room with as many stations and consoles as you want. Really, the only limit to how many stations you have on the bridge is the number of chairs and even these can easily be holographic.
They've sort of shown that on Trek. In "The Visitor" of DS9 Bashir (25th Century Era) wonders how the survived with touchscreen consoles and not holographic ones. In the Countdown comic book we've seen these consoles.
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Old February 25 2009, 06:00 AM   #54
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

A: I'd like to see the armor generators integrated into existing shield grids so that when the switch from shields to armor, as the shields drop the armor seemless activates over the exposed area. Or if the shields fail, the generators automatically activate. That would make the generators less obvious targets and more efficient.

B: I'd also like to see the Federation use phaser drones. They have a large phaser unit attached to an internal charge. They are charged in the ship from the main EPS taps, then when needed launched through a large aft door. They have their own navigational sensors and can be programmed to attack at will, be controlled from the bridge, or simply be used to mine or dismantal objects such as asteroids. They also have their own armor generator making them extremley survivable in combat situations or hostile environments. When their charge is out they return either via transporter or through the launch doors. They are about 1.5 times the size of a photon torpedo.

C: I'd like to see the slipstream drive assembly be applied to secondary navigational deflector arrays in ships that can serparate. This assembly would create low level subspace fields, and using the focusing ability allows for the saucer to achieve low warp speeds (warp 4-7 or so.), just not the speeds of hybrid drives. This at least gives the saucer independent capability and a running chance if it separates for battle.

D: New ships launched post 2380 should be equipped with recessed burst tachyon emitters for offensive/defensive ability in battle. As we all remember from Insurrection the tachyon bursts can interfere with shield stability. This combined with a phaser and torpedo attack makes the weapons more effective.

E: Instead of warp field grills, the warp fields would be emitted from an organic membrane from what Starfleet has learned from space born lifeforms with the ability to travel at FTL speeds. Instead of relying on bulky technology to manipulate the warp fields, the membranes natural ability to regulate warp fields is used instead, freeing up internal nacelle space. The membrane contracts and expands, becomes denser or less dense, thus manipulating the warp fields. Starfleet wouldn't actually sacrifice a lifeform to get this membrane, but rather creates it using sample DNA in labs throughout the Federation.
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Old February 25 2009, 09:14 PM   #55
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

The holographic displays, in my mind, would have to be a supplement to the physical consoles. Imagine the havoc caused by power fluctuations. Plus it would likely require more power to operate a full simulation of a console which would be wasteful, especially on a long term mission where power may need to be reserved.

Going back to page 1 on modular designs... it's not a bad idea. My first thought would be to crate modules out of the saucer which could be interchangeable depending on the mission. Though they'd have to be used on either the same or reasonably similar classes of ship. At least have the same saucer configuration.

Idea? - apologies for the crudeness, just a quick sketch while I post...

...but the idea there would be to have the outer saucer split into six sections, each one with differing equipment/facilities with everything standard inside the inner saucer and all the engineering stuff, shuttlebay etc in the secondary hull.

That way you have an adaptable starship, interchangeable labs and could even design other ships (maybe more like a Miranda/Nebula or Akira style) with the same dimensions of the inner saucer and have a starship pick and mix at various starbases.
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Old February 26 2009, 02:25 AM   #56
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

I like these ideas like "Holographic Damage Control", holographic interfaces/"free-floating LCARS", personal holo-cabins (all *brilliant* ideas!) because they go along with what I was about to suggest:

(These were just things I was roughing out but I'll go ahead a post what I have so far...)

- touch-screen technology was new & futuristic looking when TNG first premiered - I remember being amazed as a kid by the idea of a screen being both a display *and* an interface you could reconfigure on a whim to be anything you want; from a viewscreen to a qwerty keyboard to an Vulcan scientific calculator to anything else you could imagine and program it to emulate. But now anybody can do the same with their iPhone, and multi-touch technology makes Trek's relativily static touch-screens seem kinda simple & limited by comparisan.

So, I would like to see Trek interfaces become high-tech multi-touch displays

In fact, the whole idea of having to use a dedicated interface device is already one that developers are moving past, so I imagine it will be archaic & outmoded by Trek's time - *any* chosen surface should be able to function as a display & input interface - a desktop, a wall, a floor, etc... (I believe, iirc, the in 90's remake of Lost in Space, before Dr. Smith sabotaged the Jupiter 2, some of the walls were displaying all sorts of moving images.)

And why just flat surfaces? Shouldn't Trek's holographic technology allow for a free-floating holographic multi-touch interface like that Tom Cruise used in Minority Report? (I like to fancy that maybe that wave Spock - may or may-not have used - to change the screen in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" could have been an example of something like this. And why not? 23rd century tech could easily allow commands signaled with a wave of the hand or tentacle.)

- Ubiqutious holographic/replicator technology. We've already seen ships like the Prometheus with holo-emiters throughout the ship, so lets take this a step futher: Each room and hall on a starship can act as it's own holodeck, holographic & replicated objects can be materialized anywhere: ask for a cup of Earl Grey, and it materilizes on the table in front of you. No need to get up and walk to a replicator terminal. Want to redecorate your cabin? Holographic & replicated furnature & other furnishings (carpets, decorative art, drapes, ect...) can be recinfigured instantly. Want to play a holo-novel? Do so in your cabin.

^(Strong saftey features & overrides go without saying; so holodeck characters can't take over the ship!)

- Speaking of holograms - the aformentioned tech would allow for a return of the holographic displays seen in early TNG (hovering above desks & tabletops) & the DS9 holo-
communicator. We saw both of those techs briefly, then they just vanished. I think they should be brought back.
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Old February 26 2009, 02:54 AM   #57
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

^Now that I think about it ALL of these neat-o applications of holographic & replicator tech people have been sugesting here would just require a ship with sophisticated holo-emmiters instlled *everywhere* - which we've already seen on the Prometheus! (I'm assuming since holodecks use replicator technology these holo-emmiters would also double as replicator...emmiters...projetors whatever...)

And didn't we also see a lot of this kind of stuff in the automated starship repair facility/trap in ENT's "Dead Stop"...?

It used sophisticated replicator and tech to just materialize everything from food items to whole missing bulkheads and conduits.

I imagine then that very sophisticated holo/replicator "emitters" like that would also incorporate some *transporter* functions as well since replicator and transporter devices are basically just variations on the same technology anyway (when a replicated object appears in front of a person in this air - like we saw in "Dead Stop" - in a sense isn't it kinda "beamed" there...?)

So that would make possible another suggestion I was roughing out...

I personally fancy the concept of intra-ship transporters - crewmembers teleporting from location to location on a ship or starbase is a logical outgrowth of TNG's inter-ship site-to-site transport.

I always thought it was really cool how the Aldeans (in the TNG episode "When The Bough Breaks") would just very casually use a type of world-wide transporter system to get from place-to-place - activated by simply pressing a button on a tiny device wore on their sleve. That struck me as one of those "indistinguishable from magic" uses of ultra-high technology, and I thought it would be cool if future Fed & Starfleet members developed something just like it.
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Old February 26 2009, 02:59 AM   #58
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

bryce wrote: View Post
And why just flat surfaces? Shouldn't Trek's holographic technology allow for a free-floating holographic multi-touch interface like that Tom Cruise used in Minority Report? (I like to fancy that maybe that wave Spock - may or may-not have used - to change the screen in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" could have been an example of something like this. And why not? 23rd century tech could easily allow commands signaled with a wave of the hand or tentacle.)
Odd that you mention that... I'm currently attempting to write something in the 25th century and was thinking of SF upgrades - seeing as I have an inability to write about something without my mind trying to work out everything (and filling notebooks with weird sketches) the Minority Report display was something I thought of - basicly a 25th century Wii style interface - similar displays to what was seen in Minority report but with a thin clear-blue tinted surface (which now looks like I imitated the new Trek movie consoles) instead of the black LCARS.

That came with the glove which would have to be logged in to the console - as without it could cause some problems with picking up everyone elses movements. But that was another excuse to add to a collection of gadgets I thought up including small wrist tricorders, mini phasers mounted on the arm for special ops, a new take on the old comms earpiece, and a few other things (mostly to distract me from doing anything else)

The walls as well was something I'd sketched out a few times. Though I think my idea of that cme out of the wall consoles in First Contact that Data uses in Engineering.

My idea though was a normal surface (from the usual Starfleet grey to a mirror) that would morph into readouts/displays by either touching one small lit-up button or voice command.

Writing it down and doing some very dodgy pencil sketches - it looked like crap. But in my head if I were to see it (or if it were developed on screen) - say a normal wall with one section turning into a shadow-like panel on command showing a readout wth bright displays/lettering showing would look a little awesome.
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Old February 26 2009, 06:07 AM   #59
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

^The only bad thing about a full-up MR style GUI system is that it would be infeasible on an actual show. Not that that should limit the imagination, but I'm suggesting that's why we get the nonsensical and surely frustrating LCARS GUI on the show, because it's relatively easy to manufacture.

Another idea that came to me in the universal translator thread: universal translator contact lenses or retinal implants, which provide translation of alien language in written form. Indeed, the operating principle involved is far more plausible than that of the aural universal translator.

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Old February 27 2009, 02:14 AM   #60
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Re: your ideas for new Starfleet technology

With newer shows, the feasibility problem is reduced by the ease of computer graphics. Simply have the actors type commands into floating panels anywhere they feel like and have the CGI artists draw the consoles at their fingertips in post-production. on some level you could get more interesting and vibrant displays on screen for a fraction of the cost of constantly building and modifying static Okudagrams.
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