RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 144,473
Posts: 5,673,301
Members: 25,620
Currently online: 498
Newest member: tmaichrist

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Parallax
By: Michelle on Apr 17

New ThinkGeek Trek Shirts
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Star Trek Online Adds Voyager Actor
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Project Enterprise Campaign Debuts
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Star Trek Live In Concert Update
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Crofoot: Angel One And The Offspring
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Inner Light Screenwriter Brooklyn Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Star Trek #44 Comic Preview
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Mulgrew Chicago Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Her Universe Fashion Show Contest
By: T'Bonz on Apr 13


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 17 2009, 04:03 AM   #1
IrritatingGameOfChess
Lieutenant Commander
 
IrritatingGameOfChess's Avatar
 
Location: USA
Origins of the Dreadnought Concept?

Does anyone know where/when the concept of the dreadnought starship originated? Did it come from fandom initially or was it from Paramount? I heard about the idea at conventions in the early 80s (some fan made blueprints were even on sale), and then a few years later Pocket Books published the novel "Dreadnought" by Diane Carey (I know the books are canon but this one seemed to give the impression that the design was "blessed" by the Powers That Be).

Then, of course, the final episode of TNG featured a future Enterprise that was a dreadnought. I just think it's interesting; IF it were a fan-made idea that was embraced by the program makers, then that is pretty unusual.

Does anyone know the history of the idea/design?
IrritatingGameOfChess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2009, 04:23 AM   #2
miraclefan
Commodore
 
miraclefan's Avatar
 
Location: The F U state of TEXAS!
Re: Origins of the Dreadnought Concept?

I think it was those blasted star trek miniature battles game that came out in the eightes, Ive seen them and I think they just came up with the dreadnought on the spot so there was more variaty in the ships so they added a third nacell. IT'S lazy, but cost effective.
__________________
THEY WERE THE POLICE...JUDGE...JURY...& EXECUTIONER ALL IN ONE.

THEY WERE THE JUDGES!
miraclefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2009, 04:29 AM   #3
IrritatingGameOfChess
Lieutenant Commander
 
IrritatingGameOfChess's Avatar
 
Location: USA
Re: Origins of the Dreadnought Concept?

miraclefan wrote: View Post
I think it was those blasted star trek miniature battles game that came out in the eightes, Ive seen them and I think they just came up with the dreadnought on the spot so there was more variaty in the ships so they added a third nacell. IT'S lazy, but cost effective.
Thanks for the reply... If those games were officially licensed, then the concept belonged to Paramount from the beginning. Interesting!
IrritatingGameOfChess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2009, 05:50 AM   #4
sbk1234
Rear Admiral
 
sbk1234's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles
Re: Origins of the Dreadnought Concept?

Actually, I think it was from the Starfleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph, originally published (I think) in 1975.
__________________
In all the history of the world, a riot has NEVER broken out at a Sci-Fi convention.

"It's a fucking TV show!" - Gary Lockwood
sbk1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2009, 06:34 AM   #5
WendellM
Commodore
 
WendellM's Avatar
 
Re: Origins of the Dreadnought Concept?

sbk1234 wrote: View Post
Actually, I think it was from the Starfleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph, originally published (I think) in 1975.
You are correct. However, miraclefan's mention of gaming isn't completely unconnected...

The dreadnought design was Franz Joseph Schnaubelt's creation, first published in his Star Fleet Technical Manual, copyright 1975 by Franz Joseph Designs, not Paramount. That book's licensing/permission with regard to Paramount and Gene Roddenberry is a story in itself.

The gaming connection: Lou Zocchi had published his Star Trek Battle Manual game (which only included the Enterprise, Romulan bird of prey, and Klingon battlecruiser designs) in 1972 without license from Paramount. Paramount wasn't pleased, and he had to withdraw the game (he republished it a year later as Alien Space Battle Manual with the Trek references removed).

In 1977, Zocchi licensed the Tech Manual material from Franz Joseph Designs and incorporated its ship designs into his expanded Star Fleet Battle Manual miniatures game. His company, Gamescience, produced the miniatures, including the dreadnought (I have one in my closet, marked "© 1975 F.J.D." on the middle warp nacelle).

The 1979 Star Fleet Battles game from Stephen V. Cole used this same approach (its rulebook states, "The original designs of the Federation Dreadnought, Scout, Destroyer, Transport Tug, Starliner, and Starbase are copyright © 1975 by Franz Joseph Designs, and are used under license.").

So, the dreadnought design is Franz Joseph's, copyrighted and licensed independently.
WendellM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2009, 05:27 PM   #6
IrritatingGameOfChess
Lieutenant Commander
 
IrritatingGameOfChess's Avatar
 
Location: USA
Re: Origins of the Dreadnought Concept?

WendellM wrote: View Post
sbk1234 wrote: View Post
Actually, I think it was from the Starfleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph, originally published (I think) in 1975.
You are correct. However, miraclefan's mention of gaming isn't completely unconnected...

The dreadnought design was Franz Joseph Schnaubelt's creation, first published in his Star Fleet Technical Manual, copyright 1975 by Franz Joseph Designs, not Paramount. That book's licensing/permission with regard to Paramount and Gene Roddenberry is a story in itself.

The gaming connection: Lou Zocchi had published his Star Trek Battle Manual game (which only included the Enterprise, Romulan bird of prey, and Klingon battlecruiser designs) in 1972 without license from Paramount. Paramount wasn't pleased, and he had to withdraw the game (he republished it a year later as Alien Space Battle Manual with the Trek references removed).

In 1977, Zocchi licensed the Tech Manual material from Franz Joseph Designs and incorporated its ship designs into his expanded Star Fleet Battle Manual miniatures game. His company, Gamescience, produced the miniatures, including the dreadnought (I have one in my closet, marked "© 1975 F.J.D." on the middle warp nacelle).

The 1979 Star Fleet Battles game from Stephen V. Cole used this same approach (its rulebook states, "The original designs of the Federation Dreadnought, Scout, Destroyer, Transport Tug, Starliner, and Starbase are copyright © 1975 by Franz Joseph Designs, and are used under license.").

So, the dreadnought design is Franz Joseph's, copyrighted and licensed independently.

Wow, thank you for the comprehensive information. Roddenberry and Joseph's history is very interesting... and much of it is news to me even after all these years!
IrritatingGameOfChess is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
dreadnoughts, starfleet battles

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:25 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.