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Old February 16 2009, 08:01 PM   #46
TheArsenal
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

I liked it.

It was by no means the strongest pilot I've seen, but the story held me and there are more than enough elements in place that this could be a very solid show. I suspect, like Fringe, it will take some time for it to completely find its legs. The largest surprise for me was the strong performance from Eliza Dushku, who in the past I've found wanting. Since this show will live or die, in part, on the flexibility and range of Dushku as an actress, it is encouraging to see she seems up to the task.

Being a Whedon show, for some, knives were drawn or praise was readied, long before this show went on the air. It's funny that the actual product on the screen falls somewhere in the middle. I just hope the threads on the show don't dive head first into the endlessly tiresome.
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Old February 17 2009, 05:25 AM   #47
I am not Spock
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

I'm giving it some time to improve. Hopefully Joss will find his mojo again.

I mean, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly didn't exactly have the most compelling premises, on paper. Yet the execution was good. They're some of my favourite TV shows ever.

Come on, Joss. We know you can do better.
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Old February 17 2009, 03:28 PM   #48
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

Small White Car wrote: View Post
I haven't seen the show, but the premise bothers me.

Not because there's anything wrong with this, nor is there anything wrong with Buffy, or with River Tam. They're all fine characters and shows on their own.

But added together I'm beginning to see them less as "strong, independent women" and see it more as "Joss totally has this superior-female sexual fantasy where he gets all hot at the idea of being beat up by a woman."

All these characters are starting to feel less like characters to me and more like his personal, imaginary playthings.

I had that thought a while back, and now I see there's a show where the characters are compared to dolls and have their memory wiped each week to suit their master. Is he a mind reader? How did he sense my suspicions and make an entire show about them?

It feels to me like he's starting to parody himself, which is never a good sign.

Again - I haven't seen it, these are just my feelings based on the concept.
Did you also notice his "fantasy" casting women almost always look alike and have similar body types? At least 3-4 of the women on the show are indistinguishable from each other. Eh, I've never liked any of Whedon's shows, but this one seems a little more "adult", so i will prob watch it a bit longer.

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Old February 17 2009, 08:20 PM   #49
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

Some good news

#1 on iTunes.
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Old February 17 2009, 08:35 PM   #50
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

I wasn't overly thrilled with the pilot, but then again Firefly's pilot didn't grab me right away either. I'm talking "Serenity;" I watched them in correct order on DVD.

I was initially turned off by the premise. My big problem was that there didn't really seem to be a main character. If Echo's kind of a blank slate and she turns into someone we ostensibly won't care about week-to-week I saw a huge problem with that. I guess Penikett's admittedly interesting FBI character is the closest we're going to get to an actual leading character.

I was somewhat optimistic about the execution of it once I saw it though. It's not much right now but I can see where Whedon's going. It's definitely got potential.

Also, it may be cancelled, but I don't think it's going to get the axe as fast as Firefly did. FOX put it on Friday night and they know it's kind of a tricky show even given a good timeslot. I would hope they've set realistic expectations for it given past experiences.
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Old February 18 2009, 02:31 AM   #51
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

Can't believe Fox told him that the episodes should all be self-contained.
The best show are the ones with a long running plots.
Have these people never seen lost,bsg,sopranos and season 1 of heroes and sag.
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Old February 18 2009, 03:11 AM   #52
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

Well, not exactly rave beginnings from the reviews I've seen. Still haven't watched the ep yet, but I will sometime this week. I really want to like the show, but with the various issues that have come up in production, it has "disaster" written all over it.
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Old February 18 2009, 03:18 AM   #53
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

bigdaddy wrote: View Post
trekkerguy wrote: View Post
bigdaddy wrote: View Post

Ummm.. where have you been? It started no less than 6 months ago. I'm not kidding.

The show wasn't anything close to a win, and the ratings will prove it. Canceled within 5 episodes.
Meh, ratings mean nothing. It's an excellent show.
The ratings mean the show will be canceled, and from the polls on here to the reviews to what I saw, most won't give a damn if it does. Even the fanboy base here thought it was mainly average.
This board is a very small audience with alot of people of the
same opinion which means very little. Reviews rarely mean anything.

And yeah, ratings may mean something when it comes to paying for
the show, but they mean nothing of the quality as the reactions I see
here are an example of the kind of people who wouldn't watch it.
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Old February 18 2009, 03:21 AM   #54
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

On the other hand, people here (and on other genre sites) tend to rank every episode of some series as "A++++!!" Every episode is super awesome! So for a good chunk of people to go "meh," that's not a good sign. Still, I'll give it a shot and hope for the best.
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Old February 18 2009, 03:27 AM   #55
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

trekkerguy wrote: View Post

This board is a very small audience with alot of people of the
same opinion which means very little. Reviews rarely mean anything.
Oddly enough, I was talking with a bunch of co-workers about Dollhouse today. They are definitely not the kind of people who would ever frequent this board and the general consensus was that it was well, bad. And boring.

One of our high up development executives doesn't give it much of a chance, as much as she wanted to see a new Whedon show do well (and she does this stuff for a living; she produces television series for one of the channels our company owns).

I'll still give it a few more episodes before totally abandoning it, assuming Fox hasn't already axed it by that point.
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Old February 18 2009, 03:39 AM   #56
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

I was iffy on the premise of the show, but since it's Joss I'd of course give it a shot.

Very "meh" pilot. I didn't think it was that great at all. Hopefully next week will be better, but I wouldn't be surprised if this show get's canned within 6 episodes.
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Old February 18 2009, 03:50 AM   #57
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

I have problems with the show both in-world and out of it.

In-world, I have to wonder about an organization that is so "secret" the FBI can't find it, yet rich playboys wanting the perfect date or a guy whose kid's kidnapped knows that he can get *just* what he needs from them.

I can only call this "The A-Team factor." It's most unrealistic.

In other terms, I find myself morally repulsed by this organization. Incredible technology, and rather than use it for the betterment of society (e.g., "reprogramming" killers and so on) they use it to basically create "dream-whores" for rich guys, and they balk at opportunities to actually do some *good* as shown in the pilot. (Remember the "we don't care about justice, just getting the job done" and the willingness to wipe Echo even though she may have had the clue to solving the kidnapping?)

I'm afraid getting to like this show will be a hard row to hoe, and that disappoints me, as Joss hasn't failed me before.


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Old February 18 2009, 05:05 AM   #58
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

wamdue wrote: View Post
Colin Xavier wrote: View Post
Some ratings news, Dollhouse managed 4.72 million viewers with 2.0/6 for 18-49.
awful ratings, I was expecting at least 7 million for the first episode, damm you Sarah Connor

and the funny part about that is that this show is not even in the same league as Terminator. Not if this first one is any indication of what we are going to get. Joss has lost his touch.
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Old February 18 2009, 11:18 PM   #59
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

I wasn't blown away, but I was intrigued enough that I will keep watching. I'll be honest and admit that if this wasn't a Joss show I'm not sure I'd stick with it. Of all of the actresses Whedon has featured on his shows, Dushku might be my least favorite--I don't think she has the range the others do. Not that she's bad, but I always found both Faith an overrated character and Dushku not especially appealing. Seeing Amy Acker only reminded me that a more interesting actress could have been the lead.

Aside from Buffy and the female characters on that show, I don't know that any of Whedon's heroines have been feminist icon types. I'm not saying that they're not strong, but they've been more traditional female characters--Cordelia and Fred were supporting characters and in more traditional roles (the empath and the smart, nerdy girl), Inara was a "companion," Kaylee an awwww shucks nerdy type and River a cypher. Again, not saying any of them were weak--none of them were--but none of them were Buffy or Willow, either.

So I didn't go into this expecting an ass kicking heroine or anything like that. I'm intrigued by the premise, but only sort of--but then, I'll be honest and admit I was only sort of intrigued by Firefly's premise. Firefly sold me pretty quickly--within a few episodes--though not immediately, so I'm willing to be patient and see where the show goes.

I admit I was hoping for slightly sharper dialogue--I realize the Whedon witticism is polarizing, but I like the smartness of it.

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post

A Shep would fit right into this scenario, not as the victim of a dominatrix (the dominatrices are the ones in demand and who get paid after all) but as a suave gigalo type romancing rich women who are bored with their hubbies and their various straying, unreliable lovers. Some brainwashed guy who will never cheat on you or look at another woman because he can't would be immensely appealing to a lot of rich women interested in having their egos stroked by a harem of dumb, good-looking males.
I like how you think. I'd also like to see some male dolls in sexual situations, too, if just to even things out a bit and add a little depth to the dollhouse.


DeafPoet wrote: View Post
I was initially turned off by the premise. My big problem was that there didn't really seem to be a main character. If Echo's kind of a blank slate and she turns into someone we ostensibly won't care about week-to-week I saw a huge problem with that. I guess Penikett's admittedly interesting FBI character is the closest we're going to get to an actual leading character.
Initially that's probably going to be the case, as well as the handler who's a former police officer. I really like Penikett and feel he's a right fit for a Whedon show.
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Old February 19 2009, 01:18 AM   #60
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Re: Joss Whedon wins again.

Top41 wrote: View Post
I wasn't blown away, but I was intrigued enough that I will keep watching. I'll be honest and admit that if this wasn't a Joss show I'm not sure I'd stick with it. Of all of the actresses Whedon has featured on his shows, Dushku might be my least favorite--I don't think she has the range the others do. Not that she's bad, but I always found both Faith an overrated character and Dushku not especially appealing.
Take that back! Take it back! How could you even say that?
*sniff*
I don't even know you any more.

Thank goodness Eliza won't read your hateful words!
*double sniff*
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