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Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

View Poll Results: Grade the episode...
Excellent 166 64.84%
Above Average 68 26.56%
Average 13 5.08%
Below Average 8 3.13%
Poor 1 0.39%
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Old February 17 2009, 09:30 AM   #301
Saul
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Good episode and I'm glad they explained everything. There's a lot to take in. I might have hoped that they would have worked it into the story more than just speaking it all out. Still I am satisfied.

I think Daniel is the Vision that everyone is seeing in their heads from time to time. In particular Head Six.

I think Boomer and Galen will get back together. I hope so. I love Boomer.
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Old February 17 2009, 01:00 PM   #302
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Gregsmack wrote: View Post
Serious question:

Does anyone else think that this episode is one of the best of the series?
It's probably the one i enjoyed the most, but maybe not the best in the whole series.
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Old February 17 2009, 01:11 PM   #303
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Gregsmack wrote: View Post
Serious question:

Does anyone else think that this episode is one of the best of the series?
I can probably pick out at least a dozen episodes that I liked more.
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Old February 17 2009, 01:33 PM   #304
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Gregsmack wrote: View Post
Serious question:

Does anyone else think that this episode is one of the best of the series?
It's hard for me to say. While I think it's excellent in terms of what it revealed and what that means for the nuBSG universe, I think it was a little more 'tool' if you will in getting certain things done than some of my favorite episodes.

Take, for example, Kobol's Last Gleaming 1 and 2. I think those episodes were absolutely beautiful on so many levels - music, acting, directing, the settings, the cinematography. It was, in parts, like watching a great painting come to life, if you will. It's that artistic touch that usually lifts the episodes for me.

"No Exit" doesn't quite have that. And that's not really a complaint since it had very specific tasks to fulfill which IMHO it did excellently.

At the same time, the revelations here send chill down my spine which is really, really cool . As I said earlier, they hark back right to the beginning of the show, tie just about everything together and let things appear in a new, fascinating light. And I feel it was delivered with great style, no less, particularly in the scenes between Cavil and Ellen. As Gregsmack pointed out, hearing Cavil talk about wanting to be able to smell dark matter was amazing and certainly made me think about the times I've pondered my own limitations as a human being (not having wanted to smell dark matter yet is probably only a testament to those limitations ).

Having said all that, I will definitely need to rewatch all the season 4.5 stuff before I can really tell. There's just so much going on, so much to look out for that certain things can pass you by.
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Old February 17 2009, 02:01 PM   #305
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Above Average.
Cavil was fun - and for the first time, a Cylon actually started acting like someone who had the mind of a robot and not a human! That was nice to see, and frustrating that we're only now seeing it.
I don't think that's accurate. We've seen the other models act in accordance with their 'line' which is not exactly a human trait. You can compare it to people acting in accordance with their countrymen, group or club members or the likes, but it's not really comparable, is it?

There's also aspects such as regard for life, ones own life, in particular, that are very different due to the Cylons' ability to resurrect, I think.

So I don't think it's the first we're seeing of this at all. I think what we've seen over the course of the show if the Cylons appearing very much like machines at the outset but revealing many human traits, up to the point where they can develop individuality.
What we're seeing now is some more of the machine-oriented side (which Cavil has always advocated, really - "mechanized copies"). Plus an understanding of the nature of the 'skinjobs' in general.
And I don't see the problem in getting this information now. It harks all the way back to the beginning and sheds light on many things that before were more difficult to understand or appear in a new light now.

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
But as a rationale for genocide, the fact that Cavil doesn't like being human - oy! That's even stupider than I assumed it would be, when we finally learned the truth.
What did you assume then? I haven't seen a single possible explanation on this board or anywhere else, for that matter, that's as fitting and effective as the one we got here.

The irony is that Cavil acted very much like a machine in his cold logic and ruthless efficiency of carrying out his tasks. But he failed to comprehend the very human nature underyling his motivations.

Plus it has yet to be seen how all the other models tie in with this. We've been given Cavil's perspective, but not the others' just yet.


Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
At least now we know humanity is off the hook for any guilt regarding the Cylons. The metalheads didn't have free will before the Final Five showed up - after humanity had been "oppressing" the Cylons - and a being without free will doesn't have any right to be regarded as equal with humans anyway, so humanity did nothing wrong.
I think that's wrong, actually. Remember that the Cylons rebelled BEFORE the Final Five arrived. Hence the first war, at the very least, was a very direct result of what the humans had done. Now, we can argue whether or not they needed to develop a free will in order to rebel. Personally, I'd say, yes, they did, for all intents and purposes and as far as its possible to tell.

Also, while Cavil may have been instrumental in the genocide and the Final Five helped the Cylons create the skinjobs, the Cylons themselves - those created by man - were very much involved in the process of creating these beings (as far as we can tell from what we got so far). Hence there remains a link between what the humans did and what the Cylons did as a consequence. It's very possible they were never interested in peace and actually deceived the Final Five. That has yet to be seen.


Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
All that boo hoo about humanity not deserving to survive from Adama et al, that was just what my gut told me it was - nonsensical whining from shellshocked people. I guess it's understandable that they wouldn't be thinking clearly, having been victimized as they were.
Interestingly, I think the Cylons attack is really just a motivator for Adama to become more introspective and reflect about humans as a species. All the failings he points out are ones that apply irrespective of the Cylons.
Remember that he says people still commit murder for petty reasons among each other. And that they try to reject responsability for what they've done. Again, this applies very much even without the Cylons in the picture. Just think of the oppression of Sagittaron, for example.

And apart from all of that: Being able to question your own existence, your very right to exist, is a hallmark of what it is to be human. It's one of the things that sets people apart from machines (as we know them) and the cornerstone for modern civilization and democracy.



Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
One thing that bothers me about "No Exit" is that it takes a lot of the mysticism out of the show. And I don't mean mystery, in a sense that secrets have been revealed.

Before "No Exit," there seemed to be a lot more supernatural, religious, unexplained phenomenon going on, and I liked that about the show.
Interestingly, I feel the opposite way. I was assuming, like many people, probably, that just about everything would be explained through some higher power or God. And I still can imagine that a good deal will be.

However, I'm actually happy to see that much of it was not due to those kind of phenomenon. It corresponds to my own perception of the world wherein people often believe they're perceiving all sorts of supernatural stuff, yet most of the time the explanation is pretty simple and not mystical at all.

To me, it seems to fit with the sense of irony that characterizes nuBSG.

And I'm very curious about Kara's statements as to a higher power orchestrating things. I wonder how much of that's going to turn out to be true.

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
I had hoped for something grander for the Final Five. Some sort of immortal, godlike beings. Or disembodied spirit travellers or something. Now, they are just a bunch of regular Joes who worked in the same research facility.
But are they not godlike in a sense? They lived over 2000 years ago. They died and were reborn. They travelled the stars to warn people of the harm that would come to them. And they created life.

I think any god can appear like a "regular Joe" or godlike, depending on how you tell the story or your perspective.


Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
I guess I just hoped some of last week's reveal would have been a little more in the supernatural/unexplainable realm.
Having said all of what I said before, I can see how the episode would have been somewhat disenchanting with those expectations. But as you said yourself, there's still some explaining left.
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Old February 17 2009, 02:45 PM   #306
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Justtoyourleft wrote: View Post
Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
I guess I just hoped some of last week's reveal would have been a little more in the supernatural/unexplainable realm.
Having said all of what I said before, I can see how the episode would have been somewhat disenchanting with those expectations. But as you said yourself, there's still some explaining left.
I think by the end that people of that frame of mind will be even more disappointed. I have a feeling we will get a rather rational explanation for everything.
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Old February 17 2009, 02:53 PM   #307
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Gregsmack wrote: View Post
Serious question:

Does anyone else think that this episode is one of the best of the series?
I enjoyed it but, nah, it wasn't among the best. They definitely revealed a lot but simply revealing a lot doesn't make it a great episode by itself. They took the easy way out and just told us rather than showing us.

Anyone who reads my reviews knows that I love learning more about the big picture stuff. But, not this way. Just like I can't give a character heavy but largely plotless episode an excellent, I can't give a heavy plot development but weak character episode an excellent either. It's quite difficult too both well and it's for those few episodes that do I save the excellent reviews for.

As for what Sam revealed, while I didn't like how it was revealed, I'm happy overall with what was revealed. Somethings don't hold up if you scrutinize them enough but it holds up well enough that I'm not taken out of the story.

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Old February 17 2009, 02:55 PM   #308
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Re. USS KG5:
It's certainly possible. And I'm really, really curious where they'll be taking us.
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Old February 17 2009, 04:11 PM   #309
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
One thing that bothers me about "No Exit" is that it takes a lot of the mysticism out of the show. And I don't mean mystery, in a sense that secrets have been revealed.

Before "No Exit," there seemed to be a lot more supernatural, religious, unexplained phenomenon going on, and I liked that about the show.
My reaction was a bit different. For quite some time, it's seemed like there is some third party orchestrating events. I've always assumed that there would be a non-supernatural actor, explanation. I wasn't expecting the show to validate one or both religions by having their god(s) be the 3rd party, the head people, or what not.

As for the religious side, the Colonials have theirs and the Cylons have theirs and I doubt the validity of either will be explored much. The most we'd get is a look at how their religions affects them and their motivations. I think this religious side will remain in the show.

Now, after this last episode, the show seems to mainly be about a bunch of people racing from one side of the galaxy to the next, building robots, and trying to convince other people not to build robots.
Well it is sci fi after all. But, really, I think the religious side is still there, as strong as before. Some characters are questioning their religion but, heck, that's real life. How do people react when the real world doesn't match what their religion says it should be. Interesting stuff.

I had hoped for something grander for the Final Five. Some sort of immortal, godlike beings.Or disembodied spirit travellers or something. .
I don't know. I think that sounds cool and grand in theory. But, is it really? It's hard to connect emotionally with a disembodied godlike being and understand their motivations. Also, I'd think it would reduce the the impact of the characters' trials. BSG is nitty gritty and I think a super being wouldn't fit in with that overall feel.

Now, they are just a bunch of regular Joes who worked in the same research facility.
Hey, I used to be a regular Joe working in a research facility. What do you have against us becoming immortal?!

And I guess we still have Starbuck to explain.
Personally, I wouldn't expect much mysticism there either. I'm guessing that she was reborn using similar mechanisms as the final five. The big question in that scenario would be, how did a human download? But, who knows!

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Old February 17 2009, 04:24 PM   #310
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Justtoyourleft wrote: View Post
Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
I had hoped for something grander for the Final Five. Some sort of immortal, godlike beings. Or disembodied spirit travellers or something. Now, they are just a bunch of regular Joes who worked in the same research facility.
But are they not godlike in a sense? They lived over 2000 years ago. They died and were reborn. They travelled the stars to warn people of the harm that would come to them. And they created life.

I think any god can appear like a "regular Joe" or godlike, depending on how you tell the story or your perspective.
I think that's a great point. Also, the expression about sufficiently advanced science appearing to be magic (or perhaps mystical) comes to mind. Clearly, at some point in the human timeline, these Cylons would've appeared to be gods. Now, further a long in science, we interpret them differently.

But, I wouldn't expect BSG to "prove" any supernatural being during its run. It just runs counter to the nitty gritty, subsistence, physical, barely making it universe that these characters live in. The idea of religion and a higher being is an exit from this tough physical life that gives hope to the characters, helps them aspire to more, etc. Their religion is both a natural response to a tough reality AND something that can motivate them and make their tough lives more tolerable.

But, I don't think we'll be seeing either the colonial gods or Cylon god or any "proof" that they exist. That would just run counter to the overall feel of BSG. Plus a supernatural being really would sort of bump into the no alien thing. If not literally, at least in terms of the overall feel.

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Old February 17 2009, 04:50 PM   #311
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

^ I agree. We'll see where the story goes but from the beginning BSG has been about the human experience. I also doubt there will be any definitive proof of God or Gods or whathaveyou. The presence of higher beings could significantly detract from the overall effect of the series from the beginning.

I also really like that a lot of the legends or myths of the Colonies have been bunk or ended up certainly more grounded in reality than everyone expected. As of now, it seems that no one will save the human race but themselves.
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Old February 17 2009, 05:05 PM   #312
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

I wouldn't discount the religious aspects just yet, and No Exit only reinforced them for me. I keep reading how the prophecies turned out to be "wrong", but they actually have not been and in point of fact, right up until they found a burnt out Earth were consistently accurate from the Arrow of Apollo to the Tomb of Athena to the very fact an Earth even existed.

Remember the 13th Tribe built the Temple of Hopes to to seek guidance and the One True God showed them the way to Earth.

More to the point No Exit reinforced the notion that there is some third overarching party manipulating events from the start.

Had everything had nice "rational" explanation or intended to be that way RDM and co likely would have made it so the Five planted their faces in the temple but instead we are told outright by Ellen that's not how it is even to the point she suggests a supernaturel force must be at work. This point wouldn't have been thrown out there were it to be easily explainable when a ready rational explanation had been built into the plot in the manner of the Five placing clues. I can only think the real explantion trancends mundane answers.

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Old February 17 2009, 11:24 PM   #313
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
And I guess we still have Starbuck to explain.
Personally, I wouldn't expect much mysticism there either. I'm guessing that she was reborn using similar mechanisms as the final five. The big question in that scenario would be, how did a human download? But, who knows!

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And where did she get her shiny new viper?
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Old February 17 2009, 11:31 PM   #314
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Berg417448 wrote: View Post
It was a head injury and He's still alive.

The actor who portrays Anders suffered a real life neck injury (auto accident IIRC) and they incorporated it into the BSG story line.
It was a motorcycle accident actually. I used be an attorney at the firm who represented the defendant in that case.
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Old February 18 2009, 12:00 AM   #315
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

It was a car accident. I listened to a phone interview he did where he described coming to hanging upside down in his seat belt.
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