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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

View Poll Results: Grade the episode...
Excellent 166 64.84%
Above Average 68 26.56%
Average 13 5.08%
Below Average 8 3.13%
Poor 1 0.39%
Voters: 256. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old February 14 2009, 10:12 PM   #181
Gregsmack
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
Excellent.

....
Great review. I couldn't have put it better myself. The bit about Tyrol and Tory seeing a "man and a woman" (or however it was put) was very interesting. I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about it here. I guess that detail will get considerably more screen time and attention in the episodes to come as it went by pretty quickly in this one.
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Old February 14 2009, 10:24 PM   #182
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

So we waited ages to find who the "Final Five" were

Then we waited ages to find out who the "Final Cylon" was

Now we have to wait to find out who the "Seventh Cylon" is!
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Old February 14 2009, 10:26 PM   #183
Teek
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

I'm wondering if the heads are the ORIGINAL, ORIGINAL Cylons. The ones who could have possibly been first created on Earth. That would give you multiple generations of Cylon:

1. We humans in our present create Cylons, something happens, forcing us to leave Earth for Kobol.
2. 13th tribe Cylons created on Kobol return to an abandoned Earth and get wiped out by their own mechano-Cylon. The Final Five get initial head visions warning of impending destruction.
3. Colonial Cylons created with help of 13th Tribe Cylons (Final Five). Second war happens and heads return to help guide the way.

This all goes to the cycle of time. I wonder if Daniel left and hooked up with these first gen Cylons. The first gen could thus have some interest it stopping the cycle of time. They want everyone to finally settle their differences and live togher.
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Old February 14 2009, 10:27 PM   #184
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Ethros wrote: View Post
So we waited ages to find who the "Final Five" were

Then we waited ages to find out who the "Final Cylon" was

Now we have to wait to find out who the "Seventh Cylon" is!
Not so much, IMHO. I think the name Daniel is too much of a coincidence.
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Old February 14 2009, 10:55 PM   #185
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Ye gods! Dang busy board. Always takes me forever to read everything and then I forget who/what I want to reply to.

Anyway... enough of that rant. On with the show!

roliver wrote: View Post
Interesting backstory, but tons of holes.

Why are the Final Five even called the Final Five, when they are in fact the "Original Five."

Why isn't Cavil Model #6?
I liked the answer given that they were the final five models from Earth. I didn't think of that. I don't know if I completely agree with it either. Maybe they assigned themselves the final 5 slots out of humility. Or, as was also suggested, Cavil renumbered the Cylon models and bumped them to the final five spots.

Do the Cylons have any kind of record-keeping at all? How could the appearance of the FF, their role in the armistice, and their creation of the first new skinjob, John Cavil, go undocumented?
Paper record keeping? Why? They are all computers that can network. All records would be electronic files of some kind. Create the right kind of worm program and eliminate the information.

That presumes the appearance went undocumented. The 12 Cylon models new about the final five. Six at one point (I think it was her) said "we're not allowed to talk about them." It's as if a mental blind spot was programmed into them about these models.

Without any of this history, just how did the first skinjobs believe they were created? A Cylon stork delivered them? How could they be that clueless about their own origins?
Or they are machines programmed not to care or ask this question.

How did one "young" Cylon gain so much power? How could he wipe out virtually all knowledge and history regarding the FF, yet not be able to remove the basic knowledge of their existence? Remember, Cavil clearly did not want anyone to know the identity of the FF.
Worm program can wipe out anything. Electronic data can be manipulated providing there is access to this data. I do wonder how many models were around when Cavil took over. Perhaps just one of each. This would make it a bit easier for one entire model to take over.

Are we presuming all the Centurion models are decended from those who fought during the war? What if all these Centurion models are new creations after the skinjobs were in existance? Did the Centurions of old have different personalities?

Cavil clearly wanted to play with the FF a bit, but he had no real control over when any of them might die. Did he know exactly where they would resurrect to? A special goo pod reserved and guarded just for them?
Their entire resurrection bothers me.

1. No one new who the final five were, not even the Cylons. Were all their backup copies/bodies stored in the same facility? As you said, were they all guarded?

2. How did Ellen resurrect over such a long distance? Leoben couldn't resurrect when thrown out the airlock because they were beyond the range.

3. Was there only 1 resurrection ship? Everyone is so concerned that the hub is destroeyd so none of them can resurrect now. Before the hub was mentioned it looked pretty clear that they could resurrect simply if a resurrection ship was nearby. I assumed that any Cylons on a Cylon colony could resurrect without a ship - that the technology and means would be integrated into the colony.

Backtracking a bit, why did the Centurions accept that the FF were who they said they were? Just how did this initial meeting go. "Hey, we know we look just like the Humans, but we're really Cylons just like you. Really. Trust us on this. Put down the guns." Did they have a secret cylon handshake?
Apparently Cylons can recognize/detect another Cylon on sight. The Cylon Raider stopped attacking Anders after Anders started hearing the music.

Why were the Centurions so hell-bent on creating humanoid verions of themselves in the first place? It was so important to them that they (temporarily) stopped trying to annihilate humanity to achieve it. Why?
Jealousy? To want to be like their creators? To want to be accepted by their creators?
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Old February 14 2009, 11:01 PM   #186
137th Gebirg
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Well, I must say, this episode was the mother of all reveals. It damn near made my brains dribble out my ears trying to comprehend everything that was going on. Every scene explained something and I'm trying to reconcile it from everything that's come before. I definitely need to watch it a couple more times before I can speak intelligently about it.
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Old February 14 2009, 11:04 PM   #187
AlanC9
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
Five people on Earth decide to get together in a research facility and re-invent (forgotten?) resurrection technology all on their own. They get word (from whom?) that the end of the world is coming, so they conveniently (how?) build a space ship (complete with resurrection technology, space travel capability, and extra copies of their bodies) and somehow stash it in Earth orbit. Just how are these 'ordinary' skinjobs capable of all of this?
Resurrection technology might be an integral part of the plan for subluminal star travel. You don't need any kind of suspended animation if you can re-create bodies at the end of the flight and then download the original personality and memories.

And all we know is that these were the five who were in the system when earth was blown to hell. They're the project heads, but not necessarily the whole project. RHIP; if I invent an immortality machine, I'm damn well going to be the first person who gets to use it.

But now, these Five decide, out of the goodness of their hearts (and despite the virtually unlimited options afforded to a group of suddenly immortal individuals), to embark on a ridiculous two-thousand year journey to snail through the galaxy looking for the (whereabouts-unknown) 12 colonies to warn them JUST IN CASE those people JUST HAPPEN TO INVENT a race of robots JUST LIKE EARTH DID and those robots JUST HAPPEN TO REBEL in the same way that they did on Earth.
Did they really have unlimited options?

Earth's a radioactive mess. They could colonize a new planet if there's one around, but do they know of any? In the whole show we've discovered two. The algae planet isn't really suitable. That leaves either searching for a new one, or going where you actually know that there are inhabitable planets. Going back to the 12 Colonies/ Kobol area gives the option of joining up with the Twelve, or just recolonizing Kobol, plus any options they ever had in the Earth area.

And with resurrection and a high-sublight ship, 2000 years isn't a big price to pay.
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Old February 14 2009, 11:08 PM   #188
AlanC9
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Shawnster wrote: View Post
3. Was there only 1 resurrection ship? Everyone is so concerned that the hub is destroeyd so none of them can resurrect now. Before the hub was mentioned it looked pretty clear that they could resurrect simply if a resurrection ship was nearby. I assumed that any Cylons on a Cylon colony could resurrect without a ship - that the technology and means would be integrated into the colony.
Apparently the Hub contained vital technology necesssary for the Resurrection Ships to function. Technology that the Cylons coudn't reverse-engineer, probably because they didn't dare dismantle it to see how it worked.
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Old February 14 2009, 11:26 PM   #189
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

AlanC9 wrote: View Post
Shawnster wrote: View Post
3. Was there only 1 resurrection ship? Everyone is so concerned that the hub is destroeyd so none of them can resurrect now. Before the hub was mentioned it looked pretty clear that they could resurrect simply if a resurrection ship was nearby. I assumed that any Cylons on a Cylon colony could resurrect without a ship - that the technology and means would be integrated into the colony.
Apparently the Hub contained vital technology necesssary for the Resurrection Ships to function. Technology that the Cylons coudn't reverse-engineer, probably because they didn't dare dismantle it to see how it worked.
Bingo! It seems the Final Five/First Programmers might have held back... just in case something like John Cavil came to be...

Sharr
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Old February 14 2009, 11:31 PM   #190
137th Gebirg
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

By the way, does anyone have a transcript of Anders' ramblings before he went under the knife? He really started sounding like a Hybrid before the operation and people keep saying that he might have mentioned something about the "head" people.
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Old February 14 2009, 11:35 PM   #191
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
By the way, does anyone have a transcript of Anders' ramblings before he went under the knife? He really started sounding like a Hybrid before the operation and people keep saying that he might have mentioned something about the "head" people.

He's mentioned and it got mumbled plus Cottle was in the way something about "Tory seeing a Man" and "Tyrol seeing a woman" or it might have been "I saw a woman" right around the point he was talking about #7.

I get the impression that stuff was intentionally thrown out there and then bipassed for a later date.

Yeah a transcript of his ramblings would be helpful.

Sharr
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Old February 14 2009, 11:43 PM   #192
Warp Core Breach
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

In the part in question, Anders says:

"Back on Earth, the warning signs we got...they looked different to each one of us. I saw a woman. Tory, you saw a man. Funny. No one...no one else could see them. Galen, you thought you had a chip in your head."

Then he goes on to speak of the 7 being Daniel.

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Old February 14 2009, 11:49 PM   #193
Sharr Khan
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Warp Core Breach wrote: View Post
In the part in question, Anders says:

"Back on Earth, the warning signs we got...they looked different to each one of us. I saw a woman. Tory, you saw a man. Funny. No one...no one else could see them. Galen, you thought you had a chip in your head."

Then he goes on to speak of the 7 being Daniel.

"This has all happened before and will happen again" - Galen had Baltar's role or much like it before the Final Five got nuked and resurrected on Earth.

Curious

Sharr
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Old February 14 2009, 11:49 PM   #194
Harvey
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Excellent. So much exposition I can't even wrap my head around it. Five episodes in a row, and four that rank among the best of the series.
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Old February 14 2009, 11:57 PM   #195
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

The revelation of the lost Cylon model will set up the new song that they'll all be hearing in their heads:


Daniel is travelling tonight on a plane
I can see the red tail lights heading for Spain
Oh and I can see Daniel waving goodbye
God it looks like Daniel, must be the clouds in my eyes
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