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Old February 14 2009, 02:45 AM   #1
TedShatner10
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(SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

In the Star Wars Trilogy we all know that the Imperial Navy was the pride of the Galactic Empire's monumental armed forces with its miles long warships numbering in the many hundreds of thousands, but did the Imperial Army have its own dedicated fleet of interstella vessels?

This sort of mission creep or operational overlap is expected in any large multi-serviced military that excels at combined arms, with real life examples being the US Navy SEALs conducting operations in landlocked Afghanistan, the Luftwaffe having its own land army, and the US Army doing more marine landings than the actual Marine Corps. in WWII.

While I doubt the Imperial Army would have many capital warships like the Imperial Navy, they most likely had a sizable fleet of transportation barges, picket gunships, and medium sized cruisers, easily having its own TIE fighter corps that was seperate from the Navy's more famous TIE squandrons. A mixture of Imperial Army pride and pragmatism in having a support fleet to give it more strategic flexibility and enabled it to operate properly as a seperate branch.
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Old February 14 2009, 03:02 AM   #2
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

I always thought that the Imperial Army was a division of the Imperial Navy.
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Old February 14 2009, 04:35 AM   #3
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

Well, if we work with the (likely) assumption that the Imperial Navy was HUGE, then it is possible that the term "navy" in this case is simply a blanket term and that it is divided up into several divisions, one of them being very army-like.

For example, perhaps the troopers that stormed Princess Leia's ship in ANH were army, and that's the reason those troopers were the ones storming the ship. However, those same troopers don't dare go towards flying the star destroyers around, because they are not properly trained for that.

Come to think about it, do we ever see stormtroopers on the bridge of any star destroyer?

I am sorry if I am not making much sense or am unclear. I am really, really tired and should be sleeping right now.
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Old February 14 2009, 04:39 AM   #4
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

Broccoli wrote: View Post
Well, if we work with the (likely) assumption that the Imperial Navy was HUGE, then it is possible that the term "navy" in this case is simply a blanket term and that it is divided up into several divisions, one of them being very army-like.

For example, perhaps the troopers that stormed Princess Leia's ship in ANH were army, and that's the reason those troopers were the ones storming the ship. However, those same troopers don't dare go towards flying the star destroyers around, because they are not properly trained for that.

Come to think about it, do we ever see stormtroopers on the bridge of any star destroyer?

I am sorry if I am not making much sense or am unclear. I am really, really tired and should be sleeping right now.
I don't remember seeing any stormtroopers on the bridge of Star Destroyers in the OT. You see a few in the PT and Clone Wars series. In fact, the officers/pilots in the PT are mostly clones themselves except for the one (likely) non-clone officer Admiral Yularen (sp?).
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Old February 14 2009, 04:55 AM   #5
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

^ Perhaps the stormtroopers are more like marines, and the naval troopers closely similar to a ship's security force.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:19 AM   #6
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

IIRC, the EU take (or it may be quasi-canon) is that Stormtroopers are a branch seperate of both the Imperial Army and Navy but used to support both. They are a first strike force to put down rebellion or any serious threat to the Empire. (Which is why you won't see them on the bridge of a star destroyer unless its being boarded, etc)

Stormtroopers are a totally incorruptable extension of Palpatine's will. They cannot be bribed and will not betray the Empire willingly (but mind tricks work). If they are all clones, that makes sense. If they have some non clone recruits...things get murky.

The Navy troopers (dumbed down to the term "Death Star Trooper" in media) are the black helmeted guards in the Death Star and on Star Destroyers (and oddly the Endor bunker).

The army troopers are either unseen and/or resembles the AT-ST operator.

What the army does is anyone's guess, garrison duty on Imperial worlds? Obviously there was supposed to be army personnel on the first Death Star, since General Tagge was there. The real power in the Imperial military is the Navy of course.

But when dealing with fictional organizations, people tend to relate them to real ones, which may be a mistake.
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Old February 14 2009, 09:49 AM   #7
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

I really don't think the Empire had "branches" of service, citizens who wanted to serve (or get OFF backwater jerktown planets like tattooine) went off to the academy and trained for whatever role they desired (or atleast had the aptitude) to do(like maintinence or command duty), stormtroopers were all clones, and used as cannon fodder
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Old February 14 2009, 11:34 AM   #8
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

Cicero wrote: View Post
^ Perhaps the stormtroopers are more like marines, and the naval troopers closely similar to a ship's security force.
Essentially. The guys you see in the OT wearing black uniforms with the black "samurai" helmets are Imperial Fleet (or Naval) Troopers. They fill multiple roles onboard ship from technical specialists through ship's security.

The elite stormtrooper units serve both as "Marine" type units onboard ships (boarding parties, etc) as well as being the "frontline" of Imperial ground forces operations.

The rarely seen actual "Imperial Army" trooper (Gen Veers in ESB, the AT-ST pilots in RotJ) are the bulk of the Imperial ground forces. They operate in the "second line" units, holding ground the stormtroopers have already taken.
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Old February 14 2009, 11:49 AM   #9
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

MeanJoePhaser wrote: View Post
Stormtroopers are a totally incorruptable extension of Palpatine's will. They cannot be bribed and will not betray the Empire willingly (but mind tricks work). If they are all clones, that makes sense. If they have some non clone recruits...things get murky.
They do indeed. The original stormtrooper battalions were indeed "all clone", first from the Jango Fett line, but by the end of the war encompassing several "lines"

Some of those lines, like the "Corouscant line", were force grown and trained at a much accelerated rate over the original Kaiminoan clones, being combat ready in less than half the time. They unfortunately also lacked the degree of preparedness and capability of the original units. (This apparently is the "in universe" explanation for the infamous "stormtrooper marksmanship".)

After a rebellion on Kaimino, clone production was removed entirely to places under direct Imperial control.

Even so, early clones, both Kaiminoan and non were NOT "incorruptable" to a man. There are several instances in the SW universe of clone troopers failing to heed Order 66, for example.

By the time of ANH, stormtrooper batallions were ~50/50 clones to non-clones in composition, with the possible exception of a few units like the 501st "Vadar's Fist" Legion. They were, however, all human.

By the time of the 2nd and 3rd Imperial ascenscions in the decades after Endor, stormtrooper units became almost entirely recruited, after the Empire lost access to cloning technology. Some units even began to count non humans among their ranks.
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Old February 14 2009, 02:41 PM   #10
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

Sephiroth wrote: View Post
I really don't think the Empire had "branches" of service, citizens who wanted to serve (or get OFF backwater jerktown planets like tattooine) went off to the academy and trained for whatever role they desired (or atleast had the aptitude) to do(like maintinence or command duty), stormtroopers were all clones, and used as cannon fodder
Yet we had both Admirals on Star Destroyers (Piett) and Generals (Veers) in AT-ATs leading ground troops suggesting there is a difference in command structure for the two roles suggesting differences in services.

Also I seem to recall a line in on the EU novels about an officer leading a ground assault thinking derogatory thoughts about the imperial navy faffing about delaying the ground forces (very much in the same way armies think about navies, sailors thinking about pilots etc etc).
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Old February 14 2009, 06:35 PM   #11
TedShatner10
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

The Imperial Stormtrooper Corps. were a flexible omnibranch that could come under the command of either Navy or Army officers where ever they needed heavily armed shock infantry, with the Stormies doing most of the actual break through fighting, while the Navy and Army infantry would supplement Stormtrooper thrusts and then hold the ground. And there is COMPNOR's paramilitary COMPForce that were a cheaper, more politicized version of the Stormtrooper Corps. drawn from indocrinated youths (instead of vat grown clones).

If the Army had an extensive fleet, the biggest combat vessel they could feasibly have had would be the Venator-class Destroyers since they were phased out as frontline warships after the Clone Wars and geared towards landing many troops.
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Old February 14 2009, 06:54 PM   #12
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

^ Probably the Acclamators too.
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Old February 14 2009, 07:44 PM   #13
TedShatner10
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

nx1701g wrote: View Post
^ Probably the Acclamators too.
I assume so as well. The Army crewed Venators-class and Acclamator-class ships would not stand a chance against the Imperial Navy's Imperial/Tector-class Star Destroyers, let alone lumbering Navy monsters such as the Executor-class Star Dreadnoughts (and the like). But the ex-Navy cruisers from the Clone Wars would've given the Army more leverage over the Navy in shipping and landing troops themselves, although the Imperial Navy would still carry many Army divisions onboard Navy warships as well.
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Old February 15 2009, 08:47 PM   #14
TedShatner10
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

GHETTO EDIT: If the Navy has the monopoly on space lifting and logistics, then that demonstrates that the Army does not operate properly as an interstella organization and is therefore likely distrusted by Palpatine.
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Old February 15 2009, 09:05 PM   #15
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Re: (SW) Did the Imperial Army Have a Navy?

Before the prequels, the Stormtroopers were believed to be the equavilent of the Roman Praetorian guard. However this was contradicted in the prequels, where they are shown to be the regular army.
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