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Old February 14 2009, 05:24 PM   #76
Tachyon
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

joyofvgr wrote: View Post
Tachyon wrote: View Post
Gorf wrote: View Post
And I would have LOVED to see that storyline for Workforce. That would have been incredible and as several has already said a nice and believable way to 'end' the show, whether it resulted in J/C getting together (which I know it realistically wouldn't cause TPTB wouldn't like it) or split up and move in other directions.
Or to leave it open and let the books and/or fanfic to resolve the matter.
Well, I was always of the opinion that J/C slept together in Resolutions. I also believed that relationship to be unresolved.
I agree. They did do it in Resolutions. And Jeri Taylor's original script was more direct anyway. There Chakotay said more clearly in his angry warrior speech that he loves her, and she leaned over and kissed him. Wonder what happened next? Hmm... two adults attracted to each other on a planet alone... geez, that's a hard one!
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Old February 14 2009, 05:25 PM   #77
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

JustKate, we simply disagree on this matter. End of story. I respect your opinion, but I'm still curious as to why you think it could never ever work.

A few bad experiences doesn't mean that nobody else can ever make it work. I don't say that it would work, but I don't believe in the isolation you talk about and a good friend just isn't the same. I know from experience.

Besides it's fiction and yes, I am a J/C-holic, hear me roar.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:26 PM   #78
joyofvgr
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

[quote=JustKate;2612402]
Gorf wrote: View Post
I suspect that you just think J and C are the exception, or at least you wish they had been.
I think that it's a big part of how we might feel, but not really. Most of us would have preferred that the series ended that way, not that the relationship happened while they were still out there.

That being said, I think if Janeway didn't have such chemistry with someone that would have been one thing. But considering she did have such a strong chemistry with Chakotay and never acted on it after many years is what makes us take pause and question that.

Sure, many people go a whole life time without having anyone in their life. But how many would really pass up the opporutinity, especially if it was right there staring them in the face every day?

But just like you mentioned yesterday, we've had different experiences in life. I for one chose marriage and family over a career, so I might be of that mindset to begin with. I think I have a very biased view point.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:27 PM   #79
joyofvgr
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

Tachyon wrote: View Post
joyofvgr wrote: View Post
Tachyon wrote: View Post

Or to leave it open and let the books and/or fanfic to resolve the matter.
Well, I was always of the opinion that J/C slept together in Resolutions. I also believed that relationship to be unresolved.
I agree. They did do it in Resolutions. And Jeri Taylor's original script was more direct anyway. There Chakotay said more clearly in his angry warrior speech that he loves her, and she leaned over and kissed him. Wonder what happened next? Hmm... two adults attracted to each other on a planet alone... geez, that's a hard one!
Yeah, I saw that script. Boy I'm as bad as you guys. Now if I could only learn to write.....
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Old February 14 2009, 05:28 PM   #80
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

joyofvgr wrote: View Post
I think that it's a big part of how we might feel, but not really. Most of us would have preferred that the series ended that way, not that the relationship happened while they were still out there.

That being said, I think if Janeway didn't have such chemistry with someone that would have been one thing. But considering she did have such a strong chemistry with Chakotay and never acted on it after many years is what makes us take pause and question that.

Sure, many people go a whole life time without having anyone in their life. But how many would really pass up the opporutinity, especially if it was right there staring them in the face every day?
What she said. *nods*
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Old February 14 2009, 05:28 PM   #81
kimc
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

joyofvgr wrote: View Post
[We know Chakotay married Seven in the other timeline, but there was nothing to say what happened in the current timeline. Even though he had been started a relationship with Seven, things could have easily changed once they landed on Earth. However, that left me completely unsatisfied. I would have preferred a J/C ending.
I'm right there with you. Even though I can't see the "relationship" with Seven lasting to spacedock it was still awful to watch.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:36 PM   #82
es!
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

kimc wrote: View Post
joyofvgr wrote: View Post
[We know Chakotay married Seven in the other timeline, but there was nothing to say what happened in the current timeline. Even though he had been started a relationship with Seven, things could have easily changed once they landed on Earth. However, that left me completely unsatisfied. I would have preferred a J/C ending.
I'm right there with you. Even though I can't see the "relationship" with Seven lasting to spacedock it was still awful to watch.
Dunno... I loved "Human Error". It was not really C/7, but it was a beautiful epi, beginning with Seven playing Chopin, through her collapsing on the holodeck and ending with her awkward corridor chat with Chakotay... *sigh*

I really love that epi.

*ducks and dashes away*
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Old February 14 2009, 05:42 PM   #83
kimc
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

^ If that episode had been all there was to C/7 then I would agree with you. As it stands though it's pretty nauseating.

Then again, I rather like "Threshold" despite the hokey science so there really no accounting for taste.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:44 PM   #84
joyofvgr
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

es! wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
joyofvgr wrote: View Post
[We know Chakotay married Seven in the other timeline, but there was nothing to say what happened in the current timeline. Even though he had been started a relationship with Seven, things could have easily changed once they landed on Earth. However, that left me completely unsatisfied. I would have preferred a J/C ending.
I'm right there with you. Even though I can't see the "relationship" with Seven lasting to spacedock it was still awful to watch.
Dunno... I loved "Human Error". It was not really C/7, but it was a beautiful epi, beginning with Seven playing Chopin, through her collapsing on the holodeck and ending with her awkward corridor chat with Chakotay... *sigh*

I really love that epi.

*ducks and dashes away*
I liked Human Error also, but it was a holostory. Fiction within fiction, so it was fine. I thought Seven and Chakotay made a beautiful looking couple. I also think they did have chemistry. That was never my issue with them. I just preferred J/C. I felt that the series, as early as Caretaker, was set up for that. I also thought there was more of a spark between Janeway and Chakotay. I also liked their backgrounds: Starfleet brat and Maquis bad boy. I know "Cliche" but I liked it anyway.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:44 PM   #85
Tachyon
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

Human Error was ackward as were all the C/7 scenes in Endgame. I just cannot take Seven's romantic side seriously. I don't see it in her. She is not a romantic person in my eyes. Never has been, never will be.

And the contrast in Endgame when Chakotay was first in ready room with KJ and then on a picnic with Seven - wow. There was absolutely zero chemistry between Chakotay and Seven.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:46 PM   #86
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

joyofvgr wrote: View Post


Yeah, I saw that script. Boy I'm as bad as you guys.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:47 PM   #87
JustKate
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

I can't seem to get the multi-quote function to work, so forgive me for not answering individual questions.

Those of you who say "we have different viewpoints" are absolutely right. But I think this might be what some of that difference comes down to: In my view, and I'd say in the view of military organizations today, captains can't be ordinary people. And in fact, the good ones (and we all agree that Janeway is a good one) never are. That they achieved that rank means they have extraordinary talents, and it gives them a lot of power over their crew. But with that great talent and power comes great responsibility.

Janeway's responsibility was to her crew. Always. She knew that when she took the job. She accepted it. I would have thought less of her if she hadn't.

(And I think some of you would have, too - that's why you favor scenarios in which they admit and consumate those feelings under circumstances in which they weren't right there on Voyager. Now come on, admit it! Not saying that's the case for everybody, but I think it is for some of you.)

And by the way, if we're going to take what was shown on the screen as canon, which I certainly do, apparently Janeway and Chakotay agreed with me. They didn't act on their feelings, or if they did, we didn't find out about it. So I've got at least a couple of heavy-hitters on my side.

It isn't only captains - or career people - who have to make such decisions. Lots of people make similar choices for similar reasons: They have responsibilities (to ailing children, to aging parents, to their religious observances - whatever), and those responsibilities take precedence, at least for a while, over romance, love, marriage, etc.

And let me say one more time that I have no problem with J/C once they get back home. That would be a far more statisfying conclusion than C/7. Nuthin' against Seven, but as somebody said (Kimc, maybe), the main reaction that drew from me wasn't "Oh, how nice that they found each other!" but was instead "What the...?"

Last edited by JustKate; February 14 2009 at 06:05 PM.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:48 PM   #88
joyofvgr
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

I can't believe I am once again defending C/7. This time in a J/C thread of all places (*kicks self*)

Anyway, I thought Seven's romantic side was set up in Unimatrix Zero. I think once she found out that she once had romantic feelings for someone and remembered what that felt like she was anxious to explore them again. That being said, I always saw C/7 as a temporary fling and assumed Seven would be the one to move on.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:50 PM   #89
Gorf
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

C/7 doesn't seem realistic at all to me. I know opposites attract, but the differences between those two are just too big for me. He's a deeply spiritual person and she's more logical and rational than emotional and spiritual.

I thought she was an interesting character to begin with though and was glad for the change. They just didn't develop her and use her the way they 'should', but then that goes for most of the characters if not all.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:51 PM   #90
es!
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

joyofvgr wrote: View Post
I can't believe I am once again defending C/7. This time in a J/C thread of all places (*kicks self*)

Anyway, I thought Seven's romantic side was set up in Unimatrix Zero. I think once she found out that she once had romantic feelings for someone and remembered what that felt like she was anxious to explore them again. That being said, I always saw C/7 as a temporary fling and assumed Seven would be the one to move on.
*nods*

Chak is way too polite for break ups
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