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Old February 14 2009, 04:36 AM   #61
leola
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

Jeri wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
I wish they would have gone ahead with the original idea...
Wow, never heard that before. That would have been so handy, what with no one being responsible for their actions.
To quote J. K. Rowling, on revealing that Dumbledore is gay, "Oh, the fanfic!"

Yes, it would have been great to see that, though I rather liked Jaffen. Since not, there is fanfic (aka my canon).
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Old February 14 2009, 04:43 AM   #62
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

Yeah, I liked Jaffen, too. Those are good eps; interesting to see them all in different skins, so to speak.
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Old February 14 2009, 06:52 AM   #63
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

I got blindsided by Fight Club. Now, I do think that every piece of media I watch has an imaginary character with a secret identity and that the camera has been lying to me... So totally in the mind that Jack (Not his name, but maybe he wrote the poetry too? Edawrd Norton, whatever!) and Tyler were the same person... What if that disease Janeway had in resolutions left her so mental that that Monkey she was putting the mooves on was really Chakotay the whole time?
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Old February 14 2009, 11:20 AM   #64
Tachyon
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

kimc wrote: View Post
I wish they would have gone ahead with the original idea of having Chakotay be Janeway's lover on Quarra.
*sighs*

That would have been so effing great.
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Old February 14 2009, 11:59 AM   #65
Guy Gardener
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

If Janeway (or any mate really?) "joined his tribe" does that mean that she would have gotten tattoo's similar to his to symbolize the permanence of their union?
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Old February 14 2009, 12:06 PM   #66
Tachyon
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
If Janeway (or any mate really?) "joined his tribe" does that mean that she would have gotten tattoo's similar to his to symbolize the permanence of their union?

Intersting question. I dunno. But she could look good with one... hmm... perhaps I have to fiddle such a pic.


Here is a Season 4 recap, which many of you might have seen already, but there's a deleted scene from Hunters where our command couple discuss about their feelings. It's on 00:23 - 00:33.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LghbXH7Zm0
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Old February 14 2009, 04:14 PM   #67
BORU
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

So since this clip was played on TV does it make it canon?

Ah...for what might have been.

I would have loved to have seen the Clown College take the adult, mature chance at the relationship storyline in Workforce but I'm not quite sure the Yahoos writing at that time were adult and mature. I certainly couldn't see them writing a story for two fortish people with any clear though process and make it work.

I look at what they did with Adama and Roslyn over at BG and think "Well someone got it right cause its tasteful, mature and yet it's still frakin H-O-T!" Sadly they weren't writing for Voyager.
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Old February 14 2009, 04:40 PM   #68
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

I've been thinking about this 'KJ should isolate herself' issue for the better part of the day or at least since I read this thread this morning, and I have to say that I disagree.

In my opinion we can't possibly compare a situation of real life management today to the one of a star ship stranded 70 years from home.

If I remember correctly, total isolation as you're talking about, JustKate, could be just as big a problem as the possible consequences of her having a relationship with her first officer or anyone else for that matter as they would all be under her command and so technically her subordinate.

Isolation does strange things to the human mind and I think it would pray on her mind over time. I don't know how much time, but she's a woman, she's human, and humans need contact.

I think it's unrealistic to expect any human being - man or woman, captain or crewman - to remain on their own for an entire lifetime.

She would have to be super human to do so and in the long run I think the crew would be better off with a happy captain.

Would it be difficult, yes. Not much doubt about that, but I think it would be just as complicated and difficult in the long run for her to remain completely without bonding with another human being.

Having said that I also have to wonder about the details about these two bad situations that you've experienced. I know it happens or I'm sure it does, but I'm just as sure that some people can make it work eventhough others can't.

*steps off soapbox*
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Old February 14 2009, 04:46 PM   #69
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

And I would have LOVED to see that storyline for Workforce. That would have been incredible and as several has already said a nice and believable way to 'end' the show, whether it resulted in J/C getting together (which I know it realistically wouldn't cause TPTB wouldn't like it) or split up and move in other directions.
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Old February 14 2009, 04:55 PM   #70
Tachyon
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

Gorf wrote: View Post
And I would have LOVED to see that storyline for Workforce. That would have been incredible and as several has already said a nice and believable way to 'end' the show, whether it resulted in J/C getting together (which I know it realistically wouldn't cause TPTB wouldn't like it) or split up and move in other directions.
Or to leave it open and let the books and/or fanfic to resolve the matter.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:04 PM   #71
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

Gorf wrote: View Post
I've been thinking about this 'KJ should isolate herself' issue for the better part of the day or at least since I read this thread this morning, and I have to say that I disagree.

In my opinion we can't possibly compare a situation of real life management today to the one of a star ship stranded 70 years from home.

If I remember correctly, total isolation as you're talking about, JustKate, could be just as big a problem as the possible consequences of her having a relationship with her first officer or anyone else for that matter as they would all be under her command and so technically her subordinate.

Isolation does strange things to the human mind and I think it would pray on her mind over time. I don't know how much time, but she's a woman, she's human, and humans need contact.
There's actually a number of fan fics that deal with that issue as well. In one, Deanna Troi communicates with Janeway via the array that her behavior is unhealthy and that she should consider a relationship under the circumstances. It seems that a talented writer will investigate potential problems and be able to find proper loopholes.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:09 PM   #72
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

Tachyon wrote: View Post
Gorf wrote: View Post
And I would have LOVED to see that storyline for Workforce. That would have been incredible and as several has already said a nice and believable way to 'end' the show, whether it resulted in J/C getting together (which I know it realistically wouldn't cause TPTB wouldn't like it) or split up and move in other directions.
Or to leave it open and let the books and/or fanfic to resolve the matter.
Well, I was always of the opinion that J/C slept together in Resolutions. I also believed that relationship to be unresolved. However, they didn't leave it at that, or maybe they did. We know Chakotay married Seven in the other timeline, but there was nothing to say what happened in the current timeline. Even though he had been started a relationship with Seven, things could have easily changed once they landed on Earth. However, that left me completely unsatisfied. I would have preferred a J/C ending.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:15 PM   #73
es!
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

joyofvgr wrote: View Post
There's actually a number of fan fics that deal with that issue as well. In one, Deanna Troi communicates with Janeway via the array that her behavior is unhealthy and that she should consider a relationship under the circumstances.
Yeah, that happened in the last chapter of that novel that I linked on the first page of this thread, "Filling The Void"
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Old February 14 2009, 05:16 PM   #74
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

Gorf wrote: View Post
I've been thinking about this 'KJ should isolate herself' issue for the better part of the day or at least since I read this thread this morning, and I have to say that I disagree.

In my opinion we can't possibly compare a situation of real life management today to the one of a star ship stranded 70 years from home.

If I remember correctly, total isolation as you're talking about, JustKate, could be just as big a problem as the possible consequences of her having a relationship with her first officer or anyone else for that matter as they would all be under her command and so technically her subordinate.

Isolation does strange things to the human mind and I think it would pray on her mind over time. I don't know how much time, but she's a woman, she's human, and humans need contact.

I think it's unrealistic to expect any human being - man or woman, captain or crewman - to remain on their own for an entire lifetime.

She would have to be super human to do so and in the long run I think the crew would be better off with a happy captain.

Would it be difficult, yes. Not much doubt about that, but I think it would be just as complicated and difficult in the long run for her to remain completely without bonding with another human being.

Having said that I also have to wonder about the details about these two bad situations that you've experienced. I know it happens or I'm sure it does, but I'm just as sure that some people can make it work eventhough others can't.

*steps off soapbox*
Ah, pshaw!

Who said anything about isolating herself? Not me.

As for "remaining on their own through an entire lifetime," well, for one thing, this isn't an entire lifetime, is it? It might have ended up being a very long time, but it's not like she's segregated from all contact with other human beings from birth.

But I know that's not what you meant - you meant that you don't think she can do without romance, without love and passion. And to that I say "pshaw!" Grown-ups do it all the time - they may not like it, and it usually isn't their ideal, but they do it and they can have happy and satisfying lives in spite of that. Sometimes they do without because they don't have a partner, sometimes because their beloved has died or is absent for one reason or another, sometimes for philosophical/ethical/religious reasons, sometimes for other reasons.

You are making this sound like it's something only freaks do, when the plain fact is that lots of people do without romance and - let's get down to it, shall we? - without sex if they have sufficient reason, they have done so throughout history, and they will no doubt have to do so at times in the future as well.

Nobody said she had to isolate herself. I certainly didn't. I just think...no, I KNOW...that a captain having a romantic relationship with his/her first officer, and actually with anybody over which he or she has command responsibilities, is a bad, bad, bad idea.

And what's more, I expect that if we were talking about general theory (that is, if we were talking about a theoretical Captain X and Commander Y rather than talking these two particular characters, whom we are all fond of), more of you would agree with me.

I suspect that you just think J and C are the exception, or at least you wish they had been.

Janeway was never isolated. She had friends, really good friends, friends who would stand with her through thick and thin. That's not a bad way to live, even if it had been an entire lifetime. Plenty of people have done far worse.

Last edited by JustKate; February 14 2009 at 05:28 PM.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:17 PM   #75
joyofvgr
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

es! wrote: View Post
joyofvgr wrote: View Post
There's actually a number of fan fics that deal with that issue as well. In one, Deanna Troi communicates with Janeway via the array that her behavior is unhealthy and that she should consider a relationship under the circumstances.
Yeah, that happened in the last chapter of that novel that I linked on the first page of this thread, "Filling The Void"
Thanks, es. I knew I saw it somewhere. I've read so many fanfics I can't keep them all straight.
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