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Old February 13 2009, 08:57 PM   #46
joyofvgr
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

There's no lying involved unless someone asked them that question directly. I think discretion would be the way to go and it just would have made for a good ending, imo. I think this case is different because they were stranded. Had they had been able to have time off to visit loved ones, develop relationships off the ship, which is the case in the military, that's a different story. Many military personel live on bases with their families, as well. However, I see your point with the problem of getting involved with a superior in general. I have seen that done though, again where I used to work. It wasn't as bad as you might think.
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Old February 13 2009, 08:59 PM   #47
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

teya wrote: View Post

I just look at Endgame as resetting the timeline. Going by the theory that anything that can happen does happen in its own quantum reality, there is now a timeline for every conceivable (and inconceivable ) 'ship. There's a J/C timeline, a C/7 timeline, a J/7 timeline, and so on.
And soon we may be adding the death of Janeway timeline as well.
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Old February 13 2009, 09:03 PM   #48
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

joyofvgr wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post

I just look at Endgame as resetting the timeline. Going by the theory that anything that can happen does happen in its own quantum reality, there is now a timeline for every conceivable (and inconceivable ) 'ship. There's a J/C timeline, a C/7 timeline, a J/7 timeline, and so on.
And soon we may be adding the death of Janeway timeline as well.
There are multiple "death of Janeway" timelines. She might not have survived any number of times.

The beauty of alternate timelines is that you can simply ignore the ones you don't like.
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Old February 13 2009, 09:14 PM   #49
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

I know it's pathetic, but I don't like deathfics. Personal preference. RL can be a lot sometimes, esp now that I'm older and have teenagers ; I turn to my escapism reading to escape. That means, in general, I like happy, or at least hopeful, endings. That's me.

I've avoided some DeadJaneways on purpose, and read others by accident. It happens. I've also read some and been 'traumatized' (ok, maybe that's a little strong, but with RL, it brought me down lower than I wanted to go.) Some of it is fantastic, deathfic or not. But if I have my 'druthers, my choice is imperfectly, flawed, muddling or soaring-through alive J/C/7/T/P/Tu/etc.
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Old February 13 2009, 09:16 PM   #50
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

teya wrote: View Post
The beauty of alternate timelines is that you can simply ignore the ones you don't like.
And I do (and I do)
And I do (and I do) (come on, sing with me ....)

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Old February 13 2009, 09:20 PM   #51
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

leola wrote: View Post
I know it's pathetic, but I don't like deathfics. Personal preference. RL can be a lot sometimes, esp now that I'm older and have teenagers ; I turn to my escapism reading to escape. That means, in general, I like happy, or at least hopeful, endings. That's me.
That's me too.
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Old February 13 2009, 09:22 PM   #52
JustKate
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

joyofvgr wrote: View Post
I think this case is different because they were stranded. Had they had been able to have time off to visit loved ones, develop relationships off the ship, which is the case in the military, that's a different story. Many military personel live on bases with their families, as well. However, I see your point with the problem of getting involved with a superior in general. I have seen that done though, again where I used to work. It wasn't as bad as you might think.
Ah, but you see, I have seen it. Twice. It was just as bad as I might have imagined. So we're just looking at the same thing from radically different perspectives.

I understand what you mean about their being stranded, but in a way, that only increases Janeway's responsibility to put the crew first. When you're the captain, that's the way it's got to be, IMO.

But thanks for being so gracious about my offering a dissenting view. I won't hog the thread or anything, I just really think there are a number of J/C fanatics (though not necessarily here, as I mentioned before) who have never even considered the difficulties. They get all, you know, gooey eyed! So I brought the difficulties up, and I might bring them up again, but I promise I won't dominate the thread.
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Old February 13 2009, 09:23 PM   #53
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

joyofvgr wrote: View Post
leola wrote: View Post
I know it's pathetic, but I don't like deathfics. Personal preference. RL can be a lot sometimes, esp now that I'm older and have teenagers ; I turn to my escapism reading to escape. That means, in general, I like happy, or at least hopeful, endings. That's me.
That's me too.
Me three! If I want tragedy, I'll read Macbeth or something.
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Old February 13 2009, 09:47 PM   #54
joyofvgr
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

JustKate wrote: View Post
joyofvgr wrote: View Post
I think this case is different because they were stranded. Had they had been able to have time off to visit loved ones, develop relationships off the ship, which is the case in the military, that's a different story. Many military personel live on bases with their families, as well. However, I see your point with the problem of getting involved with a superior in general. I have seen that done though, again where I used to work. It wasn't as bad as you might think.
Ah, but you see, I have seen it. Twice. It was just as bad as I might have imagined. So we're just looking at the same thing from radically different perspectives.

I understand what you mean about their being stranded, but in a way, that only increases Janeway's responsibility to put the crew first. When you're the captain, that's the way it's got to be, IMO.

But thanks for being so gracious about my offering a dissenting view. I won't hog the thread or anything, I just really think there are a number of J/C fanatics (though not necessarily here, as I mentioned before) who have never even considered the difficulties. They get all, you know, gooey eyed! So I brought the difficulties up, and I might bring them up again, but I promise I won't dominate the thread.
I'm pretty new to all of this, but I have read a lot of J/C fan fic. There is a lot of garbage out there, but many of the stories I read actually addresses that issue pretty well. You're right in that I have only really seen success stories, so I'm not as in tuned to a relationship of that nature being a disaster.

Actually, I always love to hear the dissenting point of view. I've learned a lot more that way then by being agreed with. Plus it makes things more interesting. If I still have my opinion after hearing the other side, it only validates my own feelings, for me anyway. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so thanks for being so thankful!
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Old February 13 2009, 09:49 PM   #55
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

leola wrote: View Post
I know it's pathetic, but I don't like deathfics. Personal preference. RL can be a lot sometimes, esp now that I'm older and have teenagers ; I turn to my escapism reading to escape. That means, in general, I like happy, or at least hopeful, endings. That's me.
I can go either way. A really well-written death fic that explores the repercussions of a death doesn't bother me at all. Actually, I sometimes read 'em just to see if the author got it realistic. I was widowed young (at 46) and there is nothing I hate more than sentimental sop fests--whether it be of the romantic or the death fic variety.
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Old February 14 2009, 12:27 AM   #56
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

I agree there are difficulties with J/C while in the Delta quadrant even though Janeway said that Starfleet didn't like to interfere with the personal lives of Starfleet officers. One must assume from this comment that things in Starfleet runs things a bit differently than the modern-day army, etc.

That being said they were a long way from home where transfers weren't possible so having the command team romantically involved would present difficulties and I can see why they kept it to "chemistry only."

I wish they would have gone ahead with the original idea of having Chakotay be Janeway's lover on Quarra. They knew the show was winding down and this repercussions from this would have been a nice character arc for them for the rest of the season. Also, it would have resolved things one way or the other and made them coming together at the end more plausible OR made it possible for them to move on to others (not Seven though, she has some growing to do before entering a serious relationship, imo) without the fans going WTF.

Just my two cents...
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Old February 14 2009, 01:25 AM   #57
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

kimc wrote: View Post
I agree there are difficulties with J/C while in the Delta quadrant even though Janeway said that Starfleet didn't like to interfere with the personal lives of Starfleet officers. One must assume from this comment that things in Starfleet runs things a bit differently than the modern-day army, etc.
Yeah, there was at least one specific reference in TNG, too -- I was too lazy to look up the reference earlier, but it was Picard in "Lessons," the one where he falls in love with Nella. I just have never heard any compelling reason why something that has bothered military organizations -- actually, non-military organizations, too -- pretty much for always is suddenly not a problem for Starfleet, particularly when, clearly, sometimes it is a problem. Picard certainly found it so. So yeah, we're supposed to accept that something's changed, but nobody ever tells us what has changed. To me it's clear that people are still people, with all the good and bad that implies.

Last edited by JustKate; February 14 2009 at 03:53 AM.
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Old February 14 2009, 01:55 AM   #58
freak
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

kimc wrote: View Post
I agree there are difficulties with J/C while in the Delta quadrant even though Janeway said that Starfleet didn't like to interfere with the personal lives of Starfleet officers. One must assume from this comment that things in Starfleet runs things a bit differently than the modern-day army, etc.

That being said they were a long way from home where transfers weren't possible so having the command team romantically involved would present difficulties and I can see why they kept it to "chemistry only."

I wish they would have gone ahead with the original idea of having Chakotay be Janeway's lover on Quarra. They knew the show was winding down and this repercussions from this would have been a nice character arc for them for the rest of the season. Also, it would have resolved things one way or the other and made them coming together at the end more plausible OR made it possible for them to move on to others (not Seven though, she has some growing to do before entering a serious relationship, imo) without the fans going WTF.

Just my two cents...

I agree, kimc. I wish they would have made a J/C sort of romance in "Workforce". It would have been interesting to say the least. But I remember seeing the look on Chakotay's face when he first saw and recognized Janeway on that planet. It was like she was the most beautiful woman in the universe! *sigh* I did enjoy this episode as a whole because it showed a different side of the crew that had never before been explored. And I really liked the part where Chakotay was trying to prove to Janeway that he was who he said he was. My breath literally caught in my throat at the moment where he used that dermal regenerator and Janeway says something like: "We're the same race.." in wonderment. Then Chakotay responds by telling her: "We're more than that..we're friends". The sparks just flew between them IMO!
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Old February 14 2009, 02:05 AM   #59
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

kimc wrote: View Post
I wish they would have gone ahead with the original idea of having Chakotay be Janeway's lover on Quarra. They knew the show was winding down and this repercussions from this would have been a nice character arc for them for the rest of the season. Also, it would have resolved things one way or the other and made them coming together at the end more plausible OR made it possible for them to move on to others (not Seven though, she has some growing to do before entering a serious relationship, imo) without the fans going WTF.

Just my two cents...
*headdesk* no way really. Damn it really irritates me to hear these things, so many possibilities wasted. That would have been so amazing to see and I agree with that person who posted about the chemistry in this episode, it just dripped with J/C ness.
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Old February 14 2009, 04:16 AM   #60
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Re: *~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

kimc wrote: View Post
I wish they would have gone ahead with the original idea...
Wow, never heard that before. That would have been so handy, what with no one being responsible for their actions.
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