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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old May 28 2009, 03:37 PM   #1471
Alex1939
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kimc wrote: View Post
For all we know he didn't tell her at that point. She obviously knew about it in later episodes though but during "Hunters" we don't see him telling Janeway about it at all which is pretty strange considering she's supposed to be his best friend on the ship. Perhaps the Maquis just wanted to grieve their fallen comrades privately for a bit before sharing the news? Or it could have just been an oversight by the writers...
These are things that we shouldn't have to use our imagination to work around.
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Old May 28 2009, 03:58 PM   #1472
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
For all we know he didn't tell her at that point. She obviously knew about it in later episodes though but during "Hunters" we don't see him telling Janeway about it at all which is pretty strange considering she's supposed to be his best friend on the ship. Perhaps the Maquis just wanted to grieve their fallen comrades privately for a bit before sharing the news? Or it could have just been an oversight by the writers...
These are things that we shouldn't have to use our imagination to work around.
The use of imagination never killed anyoe. The writers did not show Janeway finding out about the fate of the Maquis in the alpha quardrant. Therefore, one can IMAGINE that she somehow knew but didn't care, she didn't know, etc. Viewers choice.
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Old May 28 2009, 04:22 PM   #1473
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Her finding out about the Maquis situation was obviously not relevant for the episode's storyline. But obviously she became aware of the situation at some point. I don't know why such a minor thing should be spelled out and chewed for a viewer, when it doesn't really make the story in the episode going further.

Naturally I would have liked to see a scene like that, but I can very well live without.
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Old May 28 2009, 08:59 PM   #1474
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kimc wrote: View Post

The use of imagination never killed anyoe. The writers did not show Janeway finding out about the fate of the Maquis in the alpha quardrant. Therefore, one can IMAGINE that she somehow knew but didn't care, she didn't know, etc. Viewers choice.
That's cool if it works for you.

Myself, I imagine writers that are too dumb to tell a good story. (ducks and runs)
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Old May 29 2009, 12:32 AM   #1475
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I think it has more to do with a lack of cojones myself.


Retrospect (***½)

I'm not normally interested in investigation episodes, it's one of the reasons why I can't be bothered with cop shows, but what I enjoyed about this episode is the fact that it focuses on Shmully and Seven's emotional reaction to a crime which has not been proven. The fact that Kovin turns out to be innocent and ends up dying because everyone was ready to judge him without trial is a dark twist, it is not something I'm used to seeing on Trek.

My biggest problem with the episode is how Seven's infraction from last week is glossed over at the beginning.
Janeway wrote:
I'm ready to give her some latitude. She's been behaving herself lately.
So Seven's rehabilitation into the normal crew has happened off screen between last week's episode and this one? That completely undermines the impact of the previous episode.
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Old May 29 2009, 12:38 AM   #1476
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I haven't seen Retrospect in ages but I remember not caring much for it. I didn't like how it interrupted the Hirogen arc--the only lipservice we have is in relation to the crew trying to purchase weapons.

I liked the brief mention of Seven working on decrypting the coded Starfleet message and the fact that she is having trouble with it is rather interesting. Yes, a message that could possibly contain top secret information you'd want it to be difficult to crack but the fact that Seven can't do it with all of her Borg encrytpion knowledge eventually does make sense which I appreciated.

The episode itself is one of those that is just "there". It's harmless. It could have taken several more interesting turns than it did. The Doctor annoyed me in this episode with his persistence. Overall, it was pretty straightforward and average. 2.5 stars out of 4.
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Old May 29 2009, 03:26 AM   #1477
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I think people are confused about the message starfleet sent...its not that its encrypted, its that its broken and incomplete due to the fact they didn't have time to get it out fully from the transmission thing. They need to find an algorithm that can fill in the gaps so to speak.
Also I did like this episode and found its conclusion very unique (much like the conclusion of "Prey") but it bothered me that the only time it showed Voyager buying new weapons, they didn't actually go ahead with the purchase...
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Old May 29 2009, 05:00 AM   #1478
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Jaespol wrote: View Post
I think people are confused about the message starfleet sent...its not that its encrypted, its that its broken and incomplete due to the fact they didn't have time to get it out fully from the transmission thing. They need to find an algorithm that can fill in the gaps so to speak.
These are lines from the episodes:

"I'm trying to decode the message Starfleet Command sent us several weeks ago,"--Seven in Retrospect

"Captain's log, Stardate 51978.2. It's been five months since we received the encoded message from the alpha quadrant. We know that the transmission was from Starfleet command but we still can't decrypt it. B'Elanna thinks it's a lost cause that too much of the data stream has been destroyed, but I haven't given up. I keep hoping inspiration will strike...Somehow."--Janeway in Hope and Fear

"We've found the treasure. I just can't pick the lock! I've tried over 50 decryption algorithms. Every time I piece together a data block, ten more come unraveled. What did Starfleet send us? A map? The location of a wormhole? If I could decode this today, Chakotay, we could be home tomorrow!"

Those all sound to me that their problem is they can't decode it to read the message. If their main problem was recovering data I think the writers would have used a term like a "retrieval algorithm". Also Arturis' gift is in linguistics and code not data recovery. A big deal was made in "Hope and Fear" of his quick grasp of language and codes.

The way that I understood how everything unfolded was that Arturis intercepted the original message back in "Hunters" or sometime before then at some point along the alien relay Voyager was using to communicate with Starfleet(This of course requires some suspension of disbelief that Arturis would know any of this). It was then that he created the false message about the Dauntless. I don't think he would have had the time in "Hope and Fear" in those few seconds to create the false message with Admiral Windbag.

He then encoded it with one of his species' complex encryptions and placed it back in the relay to where Torres grabbed it. That would be the only way that Arturis could have controlled when the message was opened in order to guarantee he would be the one on hand when it was and that the "Dauntless" was in place.

The reason Seven had such a hard time decoding it and the reason none of her codes mentioned in "Retrospect" and "Hope and Fear" failed to yield results in hindsight was because in her time as part of the Collective the Borg never assimilated Arturis' race as we learn in "Hope and Fear" and therefore hadn't asimilated their linguistic/coding skills and therefore wouldn't be able to developed a decryption algorithm to counter it:

"Have you encountered his people before?" Janeway asks Seven. "Species 1-1-6," Seven replies.

"Is that what you call us?" Arturis says "Yes," Seven says. "The Borg has never been able to assimilate them. Not yet."

At least that is what makes the most sense to me. If Arturis just sent his message and didn't take into account the damage from the data stream then he'd be thinking that the crew would get the message right away so why would the Dauntless not be nearby instead of in a system five months from where the crew was in "Hunters".
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Old May 29 2009, 06:32 AM   #1479
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Let's agree to disagree and move on
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Old May 29 2009, 06:59 AM   #1480
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I am very interested to read this thread as I just recently made my gf watch TNG (in exchange for Buffy) and we have now gotten started on DS9. I've pretty much discounted VOY but it's interesting to see how a hater might review it many years later. It certainly was not worse than ENT.

I always loved 'Prey', and the entire Hirogen arc. My trek fandom was at it's absolute height that year, Voy S4 was amazing, DS9 season 6 was amazing, and FC just came out. Heaven.
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Old May 29 2009, 09:42 AM   #1481
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Well, looks like GodBen and I remain in a state of perpetual agreement.
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Old May 29 2009, 09:45 AM   #1482
Dane_Whitman
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Looks like you're enjoying season 4 a great deal more than the previous season, GodBen.
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Old May 29 2009, 01:46 PM   #1483
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Season 4 is much, much better than season 3. There are days when I actually look forward to watching the next episode, while season 3 was an almost constant struggle. Its current average score is 5.88 which puts it slightly ahead of season 1's score of 5.87, but there is still a third of the season to go so it could easily screw things up. But this recent run of episodes has been great.
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Old May 29 2009, 05:28 PM   #1484
Jaespol
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Season 4 is better than season 3 but I still feel you under rate season 3. I think we could really see an uptick in quality in season 3 which followed into season 4 and peaked with season 5.
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Old May 29 2009, 05:40 PM   #1485
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Season 5 >>>>> Season 4. So it keeps getting better.
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