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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old May 24 2009, 09:57 PM   #1441
Tomalak
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
The first part of the episode is interesting and somewhat fun, and there is some good scenes such as Tuvok trying not to talk about his naked dream, but once the aliens turn evil the show becomes very generic. There is a lot of potential at the beginning of the episode and it is a big pity that the second half becomes so uninteresting.

And it could have been done on TNG.
Yes, I agree with that. In fact, it was done on TNG, in the far more effective and creepy Schisms. I always loved that episode, the way the clues are gradually revealed, the gruesome experiments, Riker's arm cut off and reattached, and the scene on the holodeck.

Voyager's attempt just fell a bit flat in the second half, which is a shame.
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Old May 24 2009, 11:25 PM   #1442
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Nightmare On Elm Street in space, its one of my favorite Voyager episodes purely just because its a LOT of fun.
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Old May 25 2009, 10:17 PM   #1443
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Message in a Bottle (****)

I know that many people think that Voyager getting in contact with Earth was a mistake, and I agree that it was in the later seasons when they were in constant contact with Starfleet, but I'm not going to fault this episode because I know this is only going to be a temporary affair. It is nice that there is finally an episode where Voyager gets a chance to contact Earth which does not end in a disappointing failure. I may be cruel, but I still want this crew to succeed sometimes.

This episode is fun, Shmully's interactions with Mark II makes for some good comedy, and the eventual battle with the Romulans is pretty cool. It isn't groundbreaking drama by any means but there is a charm to this episode I find impossible to deny and I must admit it is one of the few Voyager episodes I have rewatched over the years.
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Old May 25 2009, 10:40 PM   #1444
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Message In A Bottle

Well, here we have the episode which finally killed the premise for the show.

Voyager was supposed to be about a ship lost in the Delta Quadrant, as far away from the Federation as possible and all of a sudden they run into a species which can make them communicate with Earth ( about 70 000 lightyears away) as easy as a telephone call from one part of LA to another.

All excitement about the ship being lost, all excitement about how the loved ones back home handled the situation and all excitement about what would happen in a possible homecoming went out of the window there and then. Not to mention later on when TNG holograms did start jumping on and off the ship at random.

They could as well have brought them back to the Alpha Quadrant as well and the rest of the show could have been about Seven vs The Borg in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.

I'll give it 1 point out of 5.
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Old May 25 2009, 11:32 PM   #1445
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

This was a huge dent in Voyager's whole premise (not that it was even really standing by this point anymore). They may not have been in constant contact anymore but the fact is they Voyager crew didn't have to worry about people at home thinking they were dead or anything and it gave them hope Starfleet could find a way home.
This is defeating a large part of the purpose of the show- surely dealing with the idea you are COMPLETELY alone and that no one knows where you went and no one knows where to look for you. Now suddenly Starfleet know the exactly co-ordinates of Voyager and eventually get letters from home? Give me a break!!
It might have been better if the Doctor had got pulled back to the Delta Quadrant before meeting with anyone in the AQ and all they had to rely on was the word of the other EMH, that would at least have left it a bit ambiguous...as it was, it was just horrible.
I also hate how they were never shown to be one bit disturbed by the millions of people dying in the Dominion War.
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Old May 26 2009, 12:29 AM   #1446
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Message in a Bottle is one of my favorite season four episodes. It is a good solid, not great, episode so I would award it 3 stars out of 4.

It has a lot of different aspects to it that I enjoyed. It is also one of the only episodes by Lisa Klink that I actually like.

Where to start:

I liked how this episode was the beginning of the Hirogen arc. I like how each subsequent episode gave us a little bit more about them. Here it was just a nice adequate tease. I thought they were one of the better designed races of VOY with those really cool outfits and helmets.

I also thought this was the perfect spot in the series to finally re-establish contact with the Alpha Quadrant. If it had occurred in the first season it would have been too soon. Now enough time had passed for their loved ones to move on and for Starfleet to assume the ship was lost with all hands. And I wasn't even sure up until the last moment whether the Doctor would be successful in making contact. I just had a bad feeling something would prevent it but I was proven wrong. It provided one of the most heartwarming stand-up and cheer moments of the show. It was nice to see the crew getting a victory. Janeway's final remark was perfect!

I also liked the way the Doctor got to the Alpha Quadrant. It was nice to see the crew being able to utilize alien technology to achieve their goal.

Loved the Prometheus design. Liked the idea of a new EMH model. Andy Dick was most certainly an interesting choice to play the part. Some of the humor worked, some didn't. Liked seeing the Romulans. Liked the mention of the Dominion War. Liked seeing the battle with the Defiant class ships and the Prometheus in its vector attack mode.

The one weakness I found was the whole Kim/Paris silly subplot. It didn't do that much for me.
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Old May 26 2009, 01:01 AM   #1447
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
I also thought this was the perfect spot in the series to finally re-establish contact with the Alpha Quadrant. If it had occurred in the first season it would have been too soon. Now enough time had passed for their loved ones to move on and for Starfleet to assume the ship was lost with all hands.
This is my take on it too, we've gone we've almost reached the half-way point of the show so there has already been plenty of episodes about the original premise. I have no problem with them managing to get a message back to Earth but that's partly because I know they are going to screw it up in the next episode. I think it was a bad idea to have them start regular communications with Starfleet on a weekly basis later in the show, but a once-off opportunity to communicate with home doesn't bother me.

And I wasn't even sure up until the last moment whether the Doctor would be successful in making contact. I just had a bad feeling something would prevent it but I was proven wrong.
I had the same feeling when it first aired, I was so used to everything going back to normal at the end of each episode that it was pleasant to have an episode which ended with things being shaken up a little bit. Besides, you can only have the crew screw up opportunities to get home so many times before they come across as incompetent... and that quota was reached in False Profits.
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Old May 26 2009, 01:06 AM   #1448
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
I think it was a bad idea to have them start regular communications with Starfleet on a weekly basis later in the show
I actually liked the idea of Barclay and the Pathfinder Project. Too bad it never really tied into the crew's efforts to get home like it seemed it might originally.
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Old May 26 2009, 01:07 AM   #1449
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
GodBen wrote: View Post
I think it was a bad idea to have them start regular communications with Starfleet on a weekly basis later in the show
I actually liked the idea of Barclay and the Pathfinder Project. Too bad it never really tied into the crew's efforts to get home like it seemed it might originally.
I thought it was an insult to the Voyager crew.
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Old May 26 2009, 01:44 AM   #1450
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ditto!
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Old May 26 2009, 02:29 AM   #1451
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'm with GodBen, the halfway point is a good point to at least shake things up with the contact with home. People back home have had time to mourn and move on with their lives, so it can be a case of now their return might actually be seen less of a miracle and almost to inconvinence - your wife/husband/fiance, whatever has gone and remarried and is raising a family with them, your kids are growing up without a parent... these are some very real matters for people who are lost. I'll get into it more with the next episode, but right now is a good point for this to happen. The series is halfway through, so they've built up their lives on the ship, but now they consider the lives they've left behind.

The later constant communication, especially real time interactive communication, is gutting the core premise of one ship, all alone, but at this point, the limited chance at communications back home is a good decision.
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Old May 26 2009, 04:12 AM   #1452
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Message in a Bottle was one of the best episodes of Voyager.

I usually can't stand Andy Dick, but he was great in this.

A fun episode. The Barclay episode follow ups were also some of the best in the series.
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Old May 26 2009, 05:45 AM   #1453
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Message in a Bottle (****)

I know that many people think that Voyager getting in contact with Earth was a mistake, and I agree that it was in the later seasons when they were in constant contact with Starfleet, but I'm not going to fault this episode because I know this is only going to be a temporary affair. It is nice that there is finally an episode where Voyager gets a chance to contact Earth which does not end in a disappointing failure. I may be cruel, but I still want this crew to succeed sometimes.

This episode is fun, Shmully's interactions with Mark II makes for some good comedy, and the eventual battle with the Romulans is pretty cool. It isn't groundbreaking drama by any means but there is a charm to this episode I find impossible to deny and I must admit it is one of the few Voyager episodes I have rewatched over the years.
We are in agreement, GodBen! Can you imagine that?



I have to say, however, that I didn't find contact with AQ in this episode as a mistake. I think it contributed a lot in a positive way.

But I agree what was done in season 7 - too much contact with AQ was a little bit too much for your Tachyon. Though I like Pathfinder. But both "Inside Man" and "Renaissance Man" were just meh (like the second half of season 7 in general).
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Old May 26 2009, 02:06 PM   #1454
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Tachyon wrote: View Post
We are in agreement, GodBen! Can you imagine that?
So that explains why it's so cold down here, and there I was thinking it was because Satan forgot to pay the heating bill.

Though I like Pathfinder. But both "Inside Man" and "Renaissance Man" were just meh (like the second half of season 7 in general).
I remember liking Pathfinder because it did something different by not showing the real crew until the end of the episode, and that was something original. However, in later episodes I think Reg showed up far too much, and the lengths they went to in order to include Troi bordered on the ridiculous.
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Old May 27 2009, 12:18 AM   #1455
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Hunters (***½)

For the most part I really enjoyed this episode but it started to lose me towards the end. The story taking place on Voyager as they receive letters from home is very good and nearly all these scenes worked for me, from Janeway's dear John, to Tuvok learning he is a grandfather, to Chakotay and B'Elanna learning about what happened to the Maquis. Even Harry gets some stuff to do. This is a true ensemble episode and all the characters were utilised as people rather than officers.

The problems begin when the Hirogen show up. I don't dislike the Hirogen as an idea, but in this episode they didn't come across as all that threatening, the way they walked and the way they talked made them seem goofy. I had a hard time taking them seriously as a threat. The second problem is the final confrontation involving the Hirogen ships because it descends into a technobabble nightmare. Destroying the relay station in order to create a black hole to destroy the attacking ships is a cool concept, but having the characters shouting "Reroute all secondary power to the tractor emitters" or "Open the anti-matter injectors to one hundred twenty percent" is not exciting.

If they had worked a little more on the ending then this could have a a four and a half star episode, it's a pity that's not the case.

There was a shuttle. *bites lower lip*
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