A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager - Page 3

Tachyon · February 11 2009, 06:16 AM

DGCatAniSiri wrote:

I think Phage should have been aired first after Caretaker - it's a good story that emphasizes the differences between the Alpha and Delta Quadrants, since if they were an Alpha Quadrant Alien of the Week, they could just petition for medical assistance from the Federation and recieve it, while in the Delta Quadrant, the species has to resort to organ piracy. It would have been a good hook, better than a technobabble plot, heavy on the characters or not.

What an interesting idea. Never thought about this before. Perhaps it would have been slightly "bigger deal" if Parallax had come after Phage and B'Elanna had become as Chief Engineer few episode later.

es! · February 11 2009, 07:27 AM

GodBen, it's a nice idea to rewatch Voyager, especially for a person who is indifferent towards it (I mean it's clear that I watch the epis again and again, lol).

I like your reviews although I don't always agree. Like the other posters in this thread you bring up many interesting points. I'm looking forward to reading more of your "hater" reviews here!

Piper · February 11 2009, 07:28 AM

Phage was the first really solid episode after Caretaker in my opinion. Parallax had a good human story allied to a very weak technobabble story, while Time and Again was just "meh." Phage, however, had great aliens (the Vidiians were far more interesting than the Kazon) and it made Neelix seem like he would be a good character after all.

Tachyon · February 11 2009, 07:34 AM

On no, no, no, no, no. Parallax had no weak technobabble story. Me loves Parallax.

Trek Survivor · February 11 2009, 02:04 PM

"Phage" was really good.

"State Of Flux" (shown on Virgin1 Monday) was as good as I remember as well! Robert Beltran seems to struggle with acting ("All I want to know is...why") but besides him, I liked the whole Seska thang.

God bless daily repeats!

TheGodBen · February 11 2009, 05:03 PM

The Cloud (**)

I have very mixed feelings about this episode for several reasons. On the one hand it does address Voyager's energy problems which are serious enough that Janeway has to give up coffee, but then Tom and Harry go and mess around in the holodeck. The term cognitive dissonance comes to mind. I also like how a lot of this episode focuses on character scenes and this episode really makes Voyager feel like a true ensemble show, but the scenes aren't that well written some some lines sound incredibly cheesy. The cloud story is superfluous for most of the episode which I think is a good thing, but then the final 15 minutes focuses on some technobabble stuff they are doing to save the cloud, and that gets boring fast.

"There's coffee in that nebula" is a line often used to sum up Voyager, but this episode has two lines which I think do this much better. First there's the Doctor's "Why pretend we're going home at all, all we're going to do is investigate every cubic millimetre of this quadrant, aren't we?" And secondly here is Neelix with this unusually insightful comment "You don't care a great deal about your crew and introduce them to the spectre of death at every opportunity."

Here is an idea I've just had, Neelix shouldn't have been so incompetent and his anger at Janeway's decision making should have built as time went by and crew-members started to die. He senses disquiet among some of the crew and begins to lead a mutiny against Janeway's command. Many Maquis join this mutiny and Chakotay is forced to choose between his people and his captain. There could have been a good number of stories on this subject, but by the end of this episode Neelix tucks his tail between his legs (does he have a tail?) and bows down to the mighty Janeway.

I guess there is already a show for people like me and it is called Battlestar Galactica.

Torpedo count: 1/38. I'll probably forget about this, but I'm going to try and keep track of it. Voyager officially jumps the shark at torpedo 39.

leola · February 11 2009, 05:08 PM

GodBen wrote:

Torpedo count: 1/38. I'll probably forget about this, but I'm going to try and keep track of it. Voyager officially jumps the shark at torpedo 39.

Is there also going to be a Shuttle count? Methinks we'll be done quickly...

TheGodBen · February 11 2009, 05:44 PM

leola wrote:

GodBen wrote:

Torpedo count: 1/38. I'll probably forget about this, but I'm going to try and keep track of it. Voyager officially jumps the shark at torpedo 39.

Is there also going to be a Shuttle count? Methinks we'll be done quickly...

I'm going to try to keep one of those too, but I don't think there was ever a limit put on how many shuttles they had. Still, it's fun to count. 1 Ha ha ha. 2 Ha ha ha. 3 Ha ha ha...

es! · February 11 2009, 05:46 PM

I've seen a list of torpedoes and shuttles counted... darn, I don't remember where it was... maybe somebody knows?..

Lynx · February 11 2009, 06:49 PM

Tachyon wrote:

DGCatAniSiri wrote:

I think Phage should have been aired first after Caretaker - it's a good story that emphasizes the differences between the Alpha and Delta Quadrants, since if they were an Alpha Quadrant Alien of the Week, they could just petition for medical assistance from the Federation and recieve it, while in the Delta Quadrant, the species has to resort to organ piracy. It would have been a good hook, better than a technobabble plot, heavy on the characters or not.

What an interesting idea. Never thought about this before. Perhaps it would have been slightly "bigger deal" if Parallax had come after Phage and B'Elanna had become as Chief Engineer few episode later.

I agree on that. I think that B'Elanna was tamed little too quickly, already in the second episode.

Anyway, they are good episodes both of them.

My season 1-3 Voyager reviews: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/P...sodeguide.html

Tachyon · February 11 2009, 06:55 PM

^I think I have read your reviews before, because I remember seeing the concept of "Kes Factor".

kimc · February 11 2009, 07:05 PM

GodBen wrote:

I guess there is already a show for people like me and it is called Battlestar Galactica.

I love Battlestar Galactica too but I appreciate both universes for what they are. Trek was based on the premise that humanity can and will evolve to the point where individuals are able to think about more than their tiny little lives. Galactica on the other hand holds no such promise. If the cylons don't do humanity in then they will probably do it to themselves.

If I keep those ideas straight in my mind while watching each show I can better appreciate them for what they are instead of wishing they take on the characteristics of each other.

KimM · February 11 2009, 11:07 PM

B'Lanna (Tame or not) and Janeway are worth the price of admission to Voyager! Always felt like the Star Trek Majel would have written Rest Her Soul! Eye candy Seven may have begun but she and the Doctor beautifully continued the Pinocchio meme Spock and Data started - that is - what does it mean to be Human/Sentient? How do we expand our notion of humanity? Even loved Seska because it is such an indulgence to hate and admire such a wonderfully wicked character! I did feel sorry for Chakotay - to B'Lanna upon learning the full extent of Seska's treachery: "Was anyone working for me?"

Lynx · February 12 2009, 07:05 AM

Tachyon wrote:

^I think I have read your reviews before, because I remember seeing the concept of "Kes Factor".

There's more in the reviews than just that.

TheGodBen · February 12 2009, 05:22 PM

Eye of the Needle (****½)

I have always liked this episode. The hope keeps on building through the episode until finally everybody's dreams come true... then they are all slapped in the face by something nobody saw coming. Then they get one last punch in the gut when Tuvok reveals that the guy died before he transmitted the messages. This is the sort of episode I can get behind because I'm a miserable fucker.

There is also a B story about the Doctor and whether he should be treated as a machine or allowed to grow as a person, and it is always nice to have Robert Picardo on screen. There is a certain irony in the fact that he is only considered a person right at the time when everyone is planning to beam to the AQ leaving him behind as though he doesn't matter. The final scene kind of bugs me because he he claims to want a name, but in seven years he fails to come up with one.

The performances by all the cast are good and there is no Neelix, so its all good!

February 11 2009, 07:27 AM	#32
es! Commander Location: Austria	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager GodBen, it's a nice idea to rewatch Voyager, especially for a person who is indifferent towards it (I mean it's clear that I watch the epis again and again, lol). I like your reviews although I don't always agree. Like the other posters in this thread you bring up many interesting points. I'm looking forward to reading more of your "hater" reviews here!

February 11 2009, 07:28 AM	#33
Piper Fleet Captain	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Phage was the first really solid episode after Caretaker in my opinion. Parallax had a good human story allied to a very weak technobabble story, while Time and Again was just "meh." Phage, however, had great aliens (the Vidiians were far more interesting than the Kazon) and it made Neelix seem like he would be a good character after all.

February 11 2009, 07:34 AM	#34
Tachyon Fleet Captain Location: Finland	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager On no, no, no, no, no. Parallax had no weak technobabble story. Me loves Parallax.

February 11 2009, 02:04 PM	#35
Trek Survivor Captain Location: UK	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager "Phage" was really good. "State Of Flux" (shown on Virgin1 Monday) was as good as I remember as well! Robert Beltran seems to struggle with acting ("All I want to know is...why") but besides him, I liked the whole Seska thang. God bless daily repeats!

February 11 2009, 05:03 PM	#36
TheGodBen Rear Admiral Location: Ireland	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager The Cloud () I have very mixed feelings about this episode for several reasons. On the one hand it does address Voyager's energy problems which are serious enough that Janeway has to give up coffee, but then Tom and Harry go and mess around in the holodeck. The term cognitive dissonance** comes to mind. I also like how a lot of this episode focuses on character scenes and this episode really makes Voyager feel like a true ensemble show, but the scenes aren't that well written some some lines sound incredibly cheesy. The cloud story is superfluous for most of the episode which I think is a good thing, but then the final 15 minutes focuses on some technobabble stuff they are doing to save the cloud, and that gets boring fast. "There's coffee in that nebula" is a line often used to sum up Voyager, but this episode has two lines which I think do this much better. First there's the Doctor's "Why pretend we're going home at all, all we're going to do is investigate every cubic millimetre of this quadrant, aren't we?" And secondly here is Neelix with this unusually insightful comment "You don't care a great deal about your crew and introduce them to the spectre of death at every opportunity." Here is an idea I've just had, Neelix shouldn't have been so incompetent and his anger at Janeway's decision making should have built as time went by and crew-members started to die. He senses disquiet among some of the crew and begins to lead a mutiny against Janeway's command. Many Maquis join this mutiny and Chakotay is forced to choose between his people and his captain. There could have been a good number of stories on this subject, but by the end of this episode Neelix tucks his tail between his legs (does he have a tail?) and bows down to the mighty Janeway. I guess there is already a show for people like me and it is called Battlestar Galactica. Torpedo count: 1/38. I'll probably forget about this, but I'm going to try and keep track of it. Voyager officially jumps the shark at torpedo 39.

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February 11 2009, 05:46 PM	#39
es! Commander Location: Austria	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager I've seen a list of torpedoes and shuttles counted... darn, I don't remember where it was... maybe somebody knows?..

February 11 2009, 06:55 PM	#41
Tachyon Fleet Captain Location: Finland	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager ^I think I have read your reviews before, because I remember seeing the concept of "Kes Factor".

February 11 2009, 11:07 PM	#43
KimM Rear Admiral Location: The poster formerly known as ORSE	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager B'Lanna (Tame or not) and Janeway are worth the price of admission to Voyager! Always felt like the Star Trek Majel would have written Rest Her Soul! Eye candy Seven may have begun but she and the Doctor beautifully continued the Pinocchio meme Spock and Data started - that is - what does it mean to be Human/Sentient? How do we expand our notion of humanity? Even loved Seska because it is such an indulgence to hate and admire such a wonderfully wicked character! I did feel sorry for Chakotay - to B'Lanna upon learning the full extent of Seska's treachery: "Was anyone working for me?"

February 12 2009, 05:22 PM	#45
TheGodBen Rear Admiral Location: Ireland	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Eye of the Needle (****½) I have always liked this episode. The hope keeps on building through the episode until finally everybody's dreams come true... then they are all slapped in the face by something nobody saw coming. Then they get one last punch in the gut when Tuvok reveals that the guy died before he transmitted the messages. This is the sort of episode I can get behind because I'm a miserable fucker. There is also a B story about the Doctor and whether he should be treated as a machine or allowed to grow as a person, and it is always nice to have Robert Picardo on screen. There is a certain irony in the fact that he is only considered a person right at the time when everyone is planning to beam to the AQ leaving him behind as though he doesn't matter. The final scene kind of bugs me because he he claims to want a name, but in seven years he fails to come up with one. The performances by all the cast are good and there is no Neelix, so its all good!