A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[TheGodBen]

Praetor wrote:

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(And, what, you didn't like my alternate plot suggestion? I see how it is. )

You laughed at my When Harry met Sally joke, of course I love your idea.

Dane_Whitman wrote:

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Non Sequitur has a lot of problems (logic, the peformances) but I can stomach it. It's one of the few Trek episodes that is set almost entirely on Earth, which I enjoy.

That's something I hadn't thought of, but you're right, it is one of only a half dozen episodes from the whole canon which is based on Earth. I wish we could have seen more of it, but I will say that coffee containers in the future look pretty nifty.

[kimc]

Despite the logical flaws regarding the Ocampan breeding cycle "Elogium" still has some great moments so I would have rated it higher. "Non Sequitor" I normally skip when reviewing the show.

[Tachyon]

kimc wrote:

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Despite the logical flaws regarding the Ocampan breeding cycle "Elogium" still has some great moments so I would have rated it higher. "Non Sequitor" I normally skip when reviewing the show.

My thoughts exactly.

Elogium was a fun to watch, most definitely. Non Sequitor is not rewatchable for me. I have never been too fond of episodes where the focus is on one character who is running around somewhere else than on Voyager. That's why 11:59 is one of my least favorite episodes, even though it is a Janeway episode. I don like 11:59 at all.

[kimc]

Tachyon wrote:

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My thoughts exactly.

Elogium was a fun to watch, most definitely. Non Sequitor is not rewatchable for me. I have never been too fond of episodes where the focus is on one character who is running around somewhere else than on Voyager. That's why 11:59 is one of my least favorite episodes, even though it is a Janeway episode. I don like 11:59 at all.

I feel the same way about 11:59.

[Praetor]

Really? I actually enjoyed "11:59.' Not the framing story (which was rather lame) as much as the flashback itself. It had Kevin Tighe of 'Emergency.'

Why are you looking at me like that?

But one season at a time...

[Tachyon]

Praetor wrote:

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Why are you looking at me like that?

[TheGodBen]

Praetor wrote:

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Really? I actually enjoyed "11:59.' Not the framing story (which was rather lame) as much as the flashback itself. It had Kevin Tighe of 'Emergency.

It's my turn to agree with you. I also remember enjoying 11:59, but it has been a long time since I have seen it so I might have an entirely different opinion once I see it again.

[Praetor]

Whoa. People are going to start thinking we're the same person...

I haven't watched it for a while either. Since I never coughed up the cash for the DVDs, maybe when you get to season four I'll dust off the VHS and join you. Obviously, I can't be the dissenting opinion.

[kimc]

Praetor wrote:

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Whoa. People are going to start thinking we're the same person...

I was starting to wonder about that. You both started posting about the same time PLUS you're never in the same post at once. Hmmm.....

[TheGodBen]

We're also the same age and have a dislike/hatred of Katy Perry. I'm seriously beginning to worry about my individuality.

[Praetor]

You will be one with the Collective. Resistance is and forever shall be futile.

[PolloCaballo]

I know I'm a little late to the Kes discussion, but I just wanted to offer the following point of view on the "If I'm ever going to have a child it has to be now!" quote. From the very first time I saw this ep, I always took that to mean if she ever wants to have children she has to conceive the first time she ovulates.

I never thought the story was trying to tell us she could only have one child in her lifetime. I took it to mean that if she wants to continue to have children in the future, she needs to conceive the first time her body allows for that possibility, otherwise, her body would shut down and go menopausal.


Such a physiological restriction on breeding is not that outlandish of a concept. Un-neutered female ferrets, for example, must conceive on their first heat. If they don't, they will contract aplastic anemia and die.

It would make sense that such a short-lived species would have this biological rule. I'll turn everyone's attention to horse breeding for a moment. I know a horse breeder whose 28 and 30 year old mares turned out healthy fat foals this year with nary a problem (In human years, think of these mares as being 80+ years old). Why are these pregnancies considered relatively risk free? Because these mare's bodies have been conditioned to give birth. Year after year they have produced healthy foals for decades.

Conversely, would any breeder ever dare think to breed a maiden mare for her first time at age 28? Of course not! You might as well dig the hole now, because it's unlikely mare or foal will survive parturition. Not to mention the fact that such a mare probably stopped ovulating years ago.

If four years old is considered middle age for an Ocampa, it makes sense that the BPTB (biological powers that be) would decide that was a good turning point in that Ocampa's life. If there are no eligible mates by 4 years of age . . . well, then it's probably not a good idea someone slated to die at age 9 have her first child at six, seven, eight years of age. But if you've already had a child at 4, that older child can help raise your younger children, and provide a family support structure after you've died at age 9 (which I agree is stupidly short lifespan). If you had your first and perhaps, only, child much later than age 4, that child would be family-less relatively early in life.

Has any fan ever confirmed that the writers actually meant Ocampa to only have one child each? Because I am really quite surprised to see you all accepting that as what they intended. As I previously stated, the thought never would have occurred to me to interpret it that way.

[neogothboy74]

I thinkyou might be on to something, in that I don't think your theory is refuted in the material (though I myself could be wrong). I always thought it meant that she could only have 1 child in her lifetime, but that does seem odd in retrospect. Maybe someone will jump in here with more info.

[Praetor]

I was just glancing at Memory Alpha and from what I saw it didn't specify that the limit existed. If it doesn't, it would certainly allow a nice 'out' for what appears to be failed logic.

Perhaps Kes and the Ocampa reproductive system deserve their own thread so GodBen's doesn't get hijacked?

[neogothboy74]

LOL. I looked on Memory Alpha too!